Science is now cancelled? [USERS NOW BANNED FOR POLITICS]

[MaskedRacerX]

Hello; I decided to look up the use of ice for fevers.

I decided to look up craft ice refrigerators, LG has a killer one that makes round ice in addition to traditional cubes and has two ice makers in the same fridge.

Our next fridge? Could be ...

here is not a doubt that recovering from a covid 19 infection can and does result in a natural immune reaction.

Such was known before covid19 came along and is being confirmed currently. The thing you have latched onto is the notion that natural immunity varies from person to person.

That the same condition applies to the vaccines, vaccinated also have a varied immune response.

Your comparison of antibodies in a non-vaccinated, Covid recovered individual vs. a vaccinated individual is extraordinarily spurious.

[edit]

I see this has been covered in more detail since the time since this post was sitting in the editor.

Carry on

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[sk47]

Your default seems to be don't have the shots. Don't have the third one, don't have them if you have had COVID and this is really bad advice.

Hello; You make a false statement. My stance is I will not take a third booster shot after the two I have taken already. That those with naturally immunity can and most do have a strong protection. ( If they recovered on their own such should indicate a working immune system.)
As far as the unvaccinated taking the shots goes my stance it is up to them to decide just as I did.
If you can convince people to take the shots, that is fine with me. Thing seems to be there are a lot of the unvaccinated who have decided to stay that way. Among the unvaccinated are some who had and recovered from covid19. There are some who never had the illness but for reasons of their own have decided to skip the shots. I consider such their choice and respect it.
You and the crew do not respect that individuals ought to have a choice is how it reads to me.

 

[Gregs24]

Hello; You make a false statement. My stance is I will not take a third booster shot after the two I have taken already. That those with naturally immunity can and most do have a strong protection. ( If they recovered on their own such should indicate a working immune system.)
As far as the unvaccinated taking the shots goes my stance it is up to them to decide just as I did.
If you can convince people to take the shots, that is fine with me. Thing seems to be there are a lot of the unvaccinated who have decided to stay that way. Among the unvaccinated are some who had and recovered from covid19. There are some who never had the illness but for reasons of their own have decided to skip the shots. I consider such their choice and respect it.
You and the crew do not respect that individuals ought to have a choice is how it reads to me.

Highlighted above is WRONG

HOW MANY TIMES does the following statement have to be repeated to you. Can you read ?

RT-PCR positive persons who experienced COVID-19 symptoms might be less inclined to seek vaccination, believing they are protected, but our results caution against this assumption

Predictors of Nonseroconversion after SARS-CoV-2 Infection - Volume 27, Number 9—September 2021 - Emerging Infectious Diseases journal - CDC

This is nothing to do with any 'crew' as you like to call it lacking respect for anybody. It is simply getting you to acknowledge that your scientific understanding is WRONG.

 

[K4fxd]

The data has shown that Naturally immunity + Vaccine immunity > Vaccinated immunity > Naturally immune + no vaccine immunity > unvaccinated.

So like you point out naturally immune are equal to jabbed so therfore don't NEED a jab. The jab might help them but is not NEEDED in the majority of people.

So you can recommend it but not force it.

Now for a reality check. This virus or some form of it here to stay. It will be like the common cold or the flu. We will not be able to eradicate it. It spreads too easily and mutate's very fast.

 

[CJJon]

Hello; Yes this is correct. From my reading the designers of the vaccines did pick the gene sequenced bit of the virus for the spikes. They did something different in that they modified the mRNA vaccine instructions to be different from the actual virus spikes. Not a true copy. I am still trying to find more information on this design difference but have not found much. Perhaps it is kept protected by the companies. I ask again, since we have some knowledgeable types on here, what is the significance of this modification?

Snort!

It's cute you think that the actual spike is being ccreated via the mRNA process.

 

[CJJon]

So like you point out naturally immune are equal to jabbed so therfore don't NEED a jab. The jab might help them but is not NEEDED in the majority of people.

So you can recommend it but not force it.

Now for a reality check. This virus or some form of it here to stay. It will be like the common cold or the flu. We will not be able to eradicate it. It spreads too easily and mutate's very fast.

Immunity is highly variable - according to the evidence and data. It isn't like 95% are 100% immune, not hardly.

The vaccine is the most studied vaccine in history and has proved to be quite safe. Much safer (relative risk) than risking reinfection.

Thanks for the reality check...

 

[RPDBlueMoon]

So like you point out naturally immune are equal to jabbed so therfore don't NEED a jab

Where did I point out that naturally immune was equal to vaccine immunity? Re-read it. I put a greater than sign, not an equal to sign

 

[sk47]

Highlighted above is WRONG

HOW MANY TIMES does the following statement have to be repeated to you. Can you read ?

RT-PCR positive persons who experienced COVID-19 symptoms might be less inclined to seek vaccination, believing they are protected, but our results caution against this assumption

Predictors of Nonseroconversion after SARS-CoV-2 Infection - Volume 27, Number 9—September 2021 - Emerging Infectious Diseases journal - CDC

This is nothing to do with any 'crew' as you like to call it lacking respect for anybody. It is simply getting you to acknowledge that your scientific understanding is WRONG.

Hello; Here is the link again and the passages I pulled from it. Note- this is an NIH article not some random source as was claimed earlier. I will bold and underline the important parts.

Lasting immunity found after recovery from COVID-19 | National Institutes of Health (NIH)

Hello my comment; Keep in mind this link is from Jan 2021. Pretty sure the durable memories of the virus continue.

• “The immune systems of more than 95% of people who recovered from COVID-19 had durable memories of the virus up to eight months after infection.”
• “This long-term immune protection involves several components. Antibodies—proteins that circulate in the blood—recognize foreign substances like viruses and neutralize them. Different types of T cells help recognize and kill pathogens. B cells make new antibodies when the body needs them.”
• “All of these immune-system components have been found in people who recover from SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. But the details of this immune response and how long it lasts after infection have been unclear. Scattered reports of reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 have raised concerns that the immune response to the virus might not be durable.”

“The researchers found durable immune responses in the majority of people studied. Antibodies against the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2, which the virus uses to get inside cells, were found in 98% of participants one month after symptom onset. As seen in previous studies, the number of antibodies ranged widely between individuals. But, promisingly, their levels remained fairly stable over time, declining only modestly at 6 to 8 months after infection.”

“Virus-specific B cells increased over time. People had more memory B cells six months after symptom onset than at one month afterwards. Although the number of these cells appeared to reach a plateau after a few months, levels didn’t decline over the period studied.”

“Levels of T cells for the virus also remained high after infection. Six months after symptom onset, 92% of participants had CD4+ T cells that recognized the virus. These cells help coordinate the immune response. About half the participants had CD8+ T cells, which kill cells that are infected by the virus.”

“As with antibodies, the numbers of different immune cell types varied substantially between individuals. Neither gender nor differences in disease severity could account for this variability. However, 95% of the people had at least 3 out of 5 immune-system components that could recognize SARS-CoV-2 up to 8 months after infection.”

“Several months ago, our studies showed that natural infection induced a strong response, and this study now shows that the responses last,” Weiskopf says. “We are hopeful that a similar pattern of responses lasting over time will also emerge for the vaccine-induced responses.”


Hello; Seems easy enough to follow. Again note this was written back in January of 2021. If more recent information to dispute the above someone on here would have it.

 

[CJJon]

Hello; Here is the link again and the passages I pulled from it. Note- this is an NIH article not some random source as was claimed earlier. I will bold and underline the important parts.

Lasting immunity found after recovery from COVID-19 | National Institutes of Health (NIH)

Hello my comment; Keep in mind this link is from Jan 2021. Pretty sure the durable memories of the virus continue.

• “The immune systems of more than 95% of people who recovered from COVID-19 had durable memories of the virus up to eight months after infection.”
• “This long-term immune protection involves several components. Antibodies—proteins that circulate in the blood—recognize foreign substances like viruses and neutralize them. Different types of T cells help recognize and kill pathogens. B cells make new antibodies when the body needs them.”
• “All of these immune-system components have been found in people who recover from SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. But the details of this immune response and how long it lasts after infection have been unclear. Scattered reports of reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 have raised concerns that the immune response to the virus might not be durable.”

“The researchers found durable immune responses in the majority of people studied. Antibodies against the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2, which the virus uses to get inside cells, were found in 98% of participants one month after symptom onset. As seen in previous studies, the number of antibodies ranged widely between individuals. But, promisingly, their levels remained fairly stable over time, declining only modestly at 6 to 8 months after infection.”

“Virus-specific B cells increased over time. People had more memory B cells six months after symptom onset than at one month afterwards. Although the number of these cells appeared to reach a plateau after a few months, levels didn’t decline over the period studied.”

“Levels of T cells for the virus also remained high after infection. Six months after symptom onset, 92% of participants had CD4+ T cells that recognized the virus. These cells help coordinate the immune response. About half the participants had CD8+ T cells, which kill cells that are infected by the virus.”

“As with antibodies, the numbers of different immune cell types varied substantially between individuals. Neither gender nor differences in disease severity could account for this variability. However, 95% of the people had at least 3 out of 5 immune-system components that could recognize SARS-CoV-2 up to 8 months after infection.”

“Several months ago, our studies showed that natural infection induced a strong response, and this study now shows that the responses last,” Weiskopf says. “We are hopeful that a similar pattern of responses lasting over time will also emerge for the vaccine-induced responses.”


Hello; Seems easy enough to follow. Again note this was written back in January of 2021. If more recent information to dispute the above someone on here would have it.

Golly Moses...

Again, the proof is here in this post. The bits you didn't underline.

As seen in previous studies, the number of antibodies ranged widely between individuals. But, promisingly, their levels remained fairly stable over time, declining only modestly at 6 to 8 months after infection.”

Just becuase they measure antibodies does not mean people have a robust response. Don't' you get that???? Your argument breaks down right there. Ranged wildly in fact.

Then you go on about how long it lasts. True, they see that those same levels do persist, but at those same varying levels. Again, your argument is just not logical on it's face.

Tell me what all this means in terms of immunity. Tell me why these same authors recommend getting the vaccine. You know, the people you are now quoting.

 

[Gregs24]

Hello; Here is the link again and the passages I pulled from it. Note- this is an NIH article not some random source as was claimed earlier. I will bold and underline the important parts.

Lasting immunity found after recovery from COVID-19 | National Institutes of Health (NIH)

Hello my comment; Keep in mind this link is from Jan 2021. Pretty sure the durable memories of the virus continue.

• “The immune systems of more than 95% of people who recovered from COVID-19 had durable memories of the virus up to eight months after infection.”
• “This long-term immune protection involves several components. Antibodies—proteins that circulate in the blood—recognize foreign substances like viruses and neutralize them. Different types of T cells help recognize and kill pathogens. B cells make new antibodies when the body needs them.”
• “All of these immune-system components have been found in people who recover from SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. But the details of this immune response and how long it lasts after infection have been unclear. Scattered reports of reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 have raised concerns that the immune response to the virus might not be durable.”

“The researchers found durable immune responses in the majority of people studied. Antibodies against the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2, which the virus uses to get inside cells, were found in 98% of participants one month after symptom onset. As seen in previous studies, the number of antibodies ranged widely between individuals. But, promisingly, their levels remained fairly stable over time, declining only modestly at 6 to 8 months after infection.”

“Virus-specific B cells increased over time. People had more memory B cells six months after symptom onset than at one month afterwards. Although the number of these cells appeared to reach a plateau after a few months, levels didn’t decline over the period studied.”

“Levels of T cells for the virus also remained high after infection. Six months after symptom onset, 92% of participants had CD4+ T cells that recognized the virus. These cells help coordinate the immune response. About half the participants had CD8+ T cells, which kill cells that are infected by the virus.”

“As with antibodies, the numbers of different immune cell types varied substantially between individuals. Neither gender nor differences in disease severity could account for this variability. However, 95% of the people had at least 3 out of 5 immune-system components that could recognize SARS-CoV-2 up to 8 months after infection.”

“Several months ago, our studies showed that natural infection induced a strong response, and this study now shows that the responses last,” Weiskopf says. “We are hopeful that a similar pattern of responses lasting over time will also emerge for the vaccine-induced responses.”


Hello; Seems easy enough to follow. Again note this was written back in January of 2021. If more recent information to dispute the above someone on here would have it.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/9/21-1042_article note this is dated September 2021, but you would know that having read it ?

I'm not disputing any of what you posted, but you are still failing to acknowledge the link I have posted. Have you read it YES or NO

Do you understand that it means that even if you tested positive using a PCR test to confirm you had COVID there is a very significant risk that you will not have protective antibodies or even necessarily have seroconverted (so not possible to test antibodies. YES or NO

Do you understand that the author is saying that after natural infection (confirmed with a test) that there is a significant risk that you may believe you are immune when you are not YES or NO

Do you understand that this means some people may mistake having a natural infection protects them when it does not and should get vaccinated YES or NO

4 simple questions to which I request 4 one word answers, no guff.

 

[K4fxd]

Where did I point out that naturally immune was equal to vaccine immunity? Re-read it. I put a greater than sign, not an equal to sign

I was giving the jab the benefit of the doubt.

 

[sk47]

Just becuase they measure antibodies does not mean people have a robust response. Don't' you get that???? Your argument breaks down right there. Ranged wildly in fact.

Hello; Interesting in that I was writing some time ago about how some "experts" base immunity importance on antibodies numbers and other experts on the other aspects of the immune system.
For both vaccine immunity and natural immunity the numbers of some antibodies will wane over time. It is the rest of the immune system that counts over time. The part of the immune system which stores a memory of the virus can make new antibodies when needed.

The benefit cited for the naturally immune after the shot is a short term increase in those temporary antibodies. That is the way the benefit of the shots is being cited. So if you favor the shot that is a selling point. Likely why the disclaimer statement is often added in reports on natural immunity. I do not mind if a naturally immune person chooses to take a shot, such is their choice.

If other parts of the immune system reactions are favored as being important for immunity, then those short term antibodies are less important. The short term antibodies will be among the first in the fight against the virus. Once the virus is defeated they hang around for a while, then slowly decline. Fact is those antibodies can be made again as and when needed.

Here is another quote from my recent post.

“Virus-specific B cells increased over time. People had more memory B cells six months after symptom onset than at one month afterwards. Although the number of these cells appeared to reach a plateau after a few months, levels didn’t decline over the period studied.”

“Levels of T cells for the virus also remained high after infection. Six months after symptom onset, 92% of participants had CD4+ T cells that recognized the virus. These cells help coordinate the immune response. About half the participants had CD8+ T cells, which kill cells that are infected by the virus.”

I have posted other links in the past on here with information on natural immunity.

 

[sk47]

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/9/21-1042_article note this is dated September 2021, but you would know that having read it ?

I'm not disputing any of what you posted, but you are still failing to acknowledge the link I have posted. Have you read it YES or NO

Do you understand that it means that even if you tested positive using a PCR test to confirm you had COVID there is a very significant risk that you will not have protective antibodies or even necessarily have seroconverted (so not possible to test antibodies. YES or NO

Do you understand that the author is saying that after natural infection (confirmed with a test) that there is a significant risk that you may believe you are immune when you are not YES or NO

Do you understand that this means some people may mistake having a natural infection protects them when it does not and should get vaccinated YES or NO

4 simple questions to which I request 4 one word answers, no guff.

Hello; I have answered you questions.

 

[K4fxd]

Hello; I have answered you questions.

I think if Fauci came out and said natural immunity is as good as a jab these people would call him a fraud.

 

[CJJon]

Hello; Interesting in that I was writing some time ago about how some "experts" base immunity importance on antibodies numbers and other experts on the other aspects of the immune system.
For both vaccine immunity and natural immunity the numbers of some antibodies will wane over time. It is the rest of the immune system that counts over time. The part of the immune system which stores a memory of the virus can make new antibodies when needed.

The benefit cited for the naturally immune after the shot is a short term increase in those temporary antibodies. That is the way the benefit of the shots is being cited. So if you favor the shot that is a selling point. Likely why the disclaimer statement is often added in reports on natural immunity. I do not mind if a naturally immune person chooses to take a shot, such is their choice.

If other parts of the immune system reactions are favored as being important for immunity, then those short term antibodies are less important. The short term antibodies will be among the first in the fight against the virus. Once the virus is defeated they hang around for a while, then slowly decline. Fact is those antibodies can be made again as and when needed.

Here is another quote from my recent post.

“Virus-specific B cells increased over time. People had more memory B cells six months after symptom onset than at one month afterwards. Although the number of these cells appeared to reach a plateau after a few months, levels didn’t decline over the period studied.”

“Levels of T cells for the virus also remained high after infection. Six months after symptom onset, 92% of participants had CD4+ T cells that recognized the virus. These cells help coordinate the immune response. About half the participants had CD8+ T cells, which kill cells that are infected by the virus.”

I have posted other links in the past on here with information on natural immunity.

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