Science is now cancelled? [USERS NOW BANNED FOR POLITICS]

[RPDBlueMoon]

The ICE ban is for many reasons, CO2, NOx PM2.5, PM10 - localised pollution at the point of use, especially the case in busy cities. Many city centres in Europe are already ICE free and the positive effects of this are spreading out to where people live and work. The COVID lockdown showed just how quickly pollution levels can fall when ICE use drops dramatically. So the reasons are sound and popular over here in Europe.

Volvo are just responding to demand, if they were producing the wrong cars people wouldn't be buying them and yet Volvo sold more cars and made a bigger profit in 2019 than it has ever done, so the demand is clearly there.

The average UK driver does 30 miles a day, yes there will be some that do MUCH more but there will obviously also be some that do much less. Our PHEV Kuga has a range of around 35 miles and so far in 1200 miles we have put no petrol in it (and used about 2 gallons from new) so it works brilliantly for us. For the use that we put that car too ICE is a poor second best. We do use our PV to charge but with the UK power generation already going over 50% renewable then plugging it in is still a 'green' option. It is also much cheaper, about a quarter of the price of petrol. Our Kuga PHEV was exactly the same price for the equivalent diesel engine car.

UK offshore windfarms are huge and growing fast.

I completely understand that a BEV doesn't work for everybody, and other technologies may solve that quite soon for many(solid state batteries are likely to double range, reduce weight and have much faster charge rates) or FCEV's, BUT it does work for me and many others, and is in fact better than an ICE car, with the huge advantage where pollution is concerned.

Sales of EV's in the US are also growing strongly, so they must work for people there too.

Good points, I was going to say something along those lines. One thing that I feel like people are forgetting is that some of the manufactures are going for EVs solely because of the demand.

One thing also I hear is that he infrastructure can't handle the power. I'm not an electrician but when I talked to my buddy about it he said that the increased load isn't really an issue. He told me that all they really need to do is just make more substations and it will be fine.

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[K4fxd]

He told me that all they really need to do is just make more substations and it will be fine.

We don't have enough supply for current usage levels. Ca rolling black outs every summer. Substations boost voltage at a loss of amperage.

I europe EV's might be fine here in the States there is often times 2 or 300 miles between cities.

EV's are growing here due to subsidies. I forget the exact number but a majority of EV owners when they trade trade for an ICE not another EV.

 

[sk47]

The ICE ban is for many reasons, CO2, NOx PM2.5, PM10 - localised pollution at the point of use, especially the case in busy cities. Many city centres in Europe are already ICE free and the positive effects of this are spreading out to where people live and work. The COVID lockdown showed just how quickly pollution levels can fall when ICE use drops dramatically. So the reasons are sound and popular over here in Europe.

Volvo are just responding to demand, if they were producing the wrong cars people wouldn't be buying them and yet Volvo sold more cars and made a bigger profit in 2019 than it has ever done, so the demand is clearly there.

The average UK driver does 30 miles a day, yes there will be some that do MUCH more but there will obviously also be some that do much less. Our PHEV Kuga has a range of around 35 miles and so far in 1200 miles we have put no petrol in it (and used about 2 gallons from new) so it works brilliantly for us. For the use that we put that car too ICE is a poor second best. We do use our PV to charge but with the UK power generation already going over 50% renewable then plugging it in is still a 'green' option. It is also much cheaper, about a quarter of the price of petrol. Our Kuga PHEV was exactly the same price for the equivalent diesel engine car.

UK offshore windfarms are huge and growing fast.

I completely understand that a BEV doesn't work for everybody, and other technologies may solve that quite soon for many(solid state batteries are likely to double range, reduce weight and have much faster charge rates) or FCEV's, BUT it does work for me and many others, and is in fact better than an ICE car, with the huge advantage where pollution is concerned.

Sales of EV's in the US are also growing strongly, so they must work for people there too.

Hello; You post illustrates my point. If it works for you then go for it. I do not think an EV will work for me, yet if I want a new vehicle in a few years I will have to buy an EV it looks like. Lets put it the other way around. Say some government or group of companies told you you have to give up the EV and solar panels and use something else which costs more and was less useful.

I have no issue with folks buying using the new tech. That should be your choice. I do have an issue with my tax dollars being used as incentives to make an EV more competitive than the ICE vehicle I want to buy. I also see there are decisions being made which will make running my ICE more expensive while at the same time.

I fully expect at some point the fossil fuels will become so scarce I will have to move on. Look at it this way. Say I am driving and run my tank empty and have to walk. I will not like to walk but will deal with it. What is going on now is some agency/government/ business are trying to make me walk when I still have a half tank of fuel.

 

[sk47]

We don't have enough supply for current usage levels. Ca rolling black outs every summer. Substations boost voltage at a loss of amperage.

I europe EV's might be fine here in the States there is often times 2 or 300 miles between cities.

EV's are growing here due to subsidies. I forget the exact number but a majority of EV owners when they trade trade for an ICE not another EV.

Hello; Yes they ignored that bit about the blackouts. Ignore any valid objection which does not fit the plan. The way I understand it from reading is the places where wind and sun are plentiful enough to be practical can be and are quite a distance from where a lot of the need will be. There has been talk of how to build new power transmission lines to get the electricity out.

Yes I saw that report also . I think it is around 20% of former EV owners bought ICE the next time. Some of the problems I have cited are among the reasons.

 

[Gregs24]

Yes I saw that report also . I think it is around 20% of former EV owners bought ICE the next time. Some of the problems I have cited are among the reasons.

Which means 80% were happy - if a carmaker gets 80% satisfied customers then they will be very happy and EV growth will continue at a pace

 

[sk47]

Good points, I was going to say something along those lines. One thing that I feel like people are forgetting is that some of the manufactures are going for EVs solely because of the demand.

One thing also I hear is that he infrastructure can't handle the power. I'm not an electrician but when I talked to my buddy about it he said that the increased load isn't really an issue. He told me that all they really need to do is just make more substations and it will be fine.

Hello; Very good news. If demand is high then do away with state and federal incentives. make the EV compete head to head with an ICE.

My guess is the day the incentives lapse the sales of an EV will drop. I also figure the cost of a replacement battery pack will have an effect. Say in ten years you put a for sale sign on the old EV and have to tell a potential buyer it needs a batter pack worth more than the car. What are car dealers going to do when you go to trade in an EV with an old weak battery pack?

I see lots of BMW's for sale that tare about four years old and/or have 40,000+ miles. That is when the Mfg warranties start to rune out. The cars can be expensive to maintain so I am guessing they wisely trade before having to face expensive repairs out of pocket.

 

[Gregs24]

Hello; You post illustrates my point. If it works for you then go for it. I do not think an EV will work for me, yet if I want a new vehicle in a few years I will have to buy an EV it looks like. Lets put it the other way around. Say some government or group of companies told you you have to give up the EV and solar panels and use something else which costs more and was less useful.

I have no issue with folks buying using the new tech. That should be your choice. I do have an issue with my tax dollars being used as incentives to make an EV more competitive than the ICE vehicle I want to buy. I also see there are decisions being made which will make running my ICE more expensive while at the same time.

I fully expect at some point the fossil fuels will become so scarce I will have to move on. Look at it this way. Say I am driving and run my tank empty and have to walk. I will not like to walk but will deal with it. What is going on now is some agency/government/ business are trying to make me walk when I still have a half tank of fuel.

But crucially the ban is all about atmospheric pollution. There has already been a case in the UK where a child died as a result of environmental pollution living at the side of a busy road. People living in the cities are driving the changes - they don't want to be slowly poisoned.

 

[Gregs24]

I also figure the cost of a replacement battery pack will have an effect. Say in ten years you put a for sale sign on the old EV and have to tell a potential buyer it needs a batter pack worth more than the car. What are car dealers going to do when you go to trade in an EV with an old weak battery pack?

This is not an issue, batteries are lasting the lifetime of the vehicle with only minimal loss of range and in fact then being repurposed in other locations (non-automotive) after that. There are plenty of 10 year old EV's around here now still working fine

 

[sk47]

Which means 80% were happy - if a carmaker gets 80% satisfied customers then they will be very happy and EV growth will continue at a pace

Hello; No not necessarily. When my 91 Sentra got old I bought a new 2001 Sentra. I was a happy customer and bought the same type car.
Also we do not know what the other 80% of EV owners will do when it is time to trade. The story was not that 100% of EV owners traded and 80% bought new EV's. It was that 20% of former EV owners moved back to ICE. At least that was the take I got form the story. If I am wrong feel free to dig up the information.

 

[Gregs24]

We don't have enough supply for current usage levels. Ca rolling black outs every summer. Substations boost voltage at a loss of amperage.

I europe EV's might be fine here in the States there is often times 2 or 300 miles between cities.

EV's are growing here due to subsidies. I forget the exact number but a majority of EV owners when they trade trade for an ICE not another EV.

You cite examples where they will not work, but there are many people in the US where they will work, it isn't all or nothing. And of those 80% who do buy another EV it clearly is working. If I lived in a city in the US an EV would work just as well as if I lived in a city in the UK. Not everybody drives 300 miles a day.

 

[Gregs24]

Hello; No not necessarily. When my 91 Sentra got old I bought a new 2001 Sentra. I was a happy customer and bought the same type car.
Also we do not know what the other 80% of EV owners will do when it is time to trade. The story was not that 100% of EV owners traded and 80% bought new EV's. It was that 20% of former EV owners moved back to ICE. At least that was the take I got form the story. If I am wrong feel free to dig up the information.

Surely if 20% returned to ICE then the other 80% didn't?

 

[RPDBlueMoon]

We don't have enough supply for current usage levels. Ca rolling black outs every summer. Substations boost voltage at a loss of amperage.

Then how do you increase power? I am aware of the blackouts but I don't really know much behind the reasoning

 

[sk47]

But crucially the ban is all about atmospheric pollution. There has already been a case in the UK where a child died as a result of environmental pollution living at the side of a busy road. People living in the cities are driving the changes - they don't want to be slowly poisoned.

Hello; This is the strong part of the issue , no doubt. The idea of saving the planet in some way. Question becomes is are the moves to solar, EV's , wind and such as clean as everyone hopes them to be.

 

[Gregs24]

Hello; Yes they ignored that bit about the blackouts. Ignore any valid objection which does not fit the plan. The way I understand it from reading is the places where wind and sun are plentiful enough to be practical can be and are quite a distance from where a lot of the need will be. There has been talk of how to build new power transmission lines to get the electricity out.

Yes I saw that report also . I think it is around 20% of former EV owners bought ICE the next time. Some of the problems I have cited are among the reasons.

You have plenty of wind and sun in the US (probably a lot more sun than us!)

But again I will say - it isn't for everybody at the moment BUT more and more will find it better as battery and FC technology advances, into which carmakers are investing billions. There are plenty of places in the US where it will work now, which is why people are buying EV's. Those people are not wrong or deluded. The lack of infrastructure in the US is a problem for some people but NOT all of them. So it is a valid objection for SOME people but NOT All people.

 

[Gregs24]

Hello; This is the strong part of the issue , no doubt. The idea of saving the planet in some way. Question becomes is are the moves to solar, EV's , wind and such as clean as everyone hopes them to be.

Nobody should be duped into believing there are no issues with EV's but environmental pollution is killing people now. It is easy to criticise BEV's but those that do frequently ignore the hideous negatives associated with ICE's

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