How close is this engine to the Speed 3?

[Fast64ranchero]

Wondering how close the two engines are. I helped a buddy build his Mazda speed 3 engine a couple years ago, (I ported the head and assembled it) it ran really well and wiped up on my old 2010 Mustang GT that was making 336whp.
Those engines had a few issues, like oiling and week rods, they also liked to spin rod bearings

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[cosmo]

The block itself if very similar. The head is completely different, and the internals are different as well. They have the same architecture, the block, but literally everything else is different.

 

[Juben]

The DISI motors are sort of a grandfather to the EB engines. Ford took what they learned from Mazda and applied a lot of it to the EB engines.

 

[LStillman]

From the pictures I've seen they are very similar. Ford did improve on a few things, Intake manifold design, exhaust VVT ECT.

They did keep some of the bad though those crappy Friction washers with no pinned crank or cams....

Infact I dare say if you've built a MS3 engine you'll feel right at home with the ecoboost 2.3.

 

[dragonacc]

I would say one of the big changes is closed vs open deck design. Only going to get to a certain point without addressing that on the EB.

 

[arghx7]

Displacement and some castings maybe, but otherwise way different.

1. Very different combustion system - injectors, high pressure fuel system, piston bowl, intake port, combustion chamber

2. integrated exhaust manifold with twin scroll turbo

it's almost 10 years newer, so yeah I'd say calling the Speed3 engine a grandfather is accurate enough. Open deck doesn't matter so much as what kind of cylinder pressures the engine was designed for.

 

[Herr_Poopschitz]

Open deck doesn't matter so much as what kind of cylinder pressures the engine was designed for.

Well, there's what it was designed for, and then there's what it will ultimately be able to handle, and for how long...

...much like the factory thin walled 302 roller blocks...held 225 hp forever. Start pushing them to 500+rw and it was just a matter of time before they split in half.

 

[Alex]

The motors are quite different in many ways. The EB 2.3 uses a more modern control system, DI system, pistons, rods, and overall architecture with dual VVT.

It is a more modern and robust engine overall as Ford has learned from the DISI in the Mazda (it was a Duratec after all) and applied improvements to the EB motors.

 

[bigspoondude]

I would say one of the big changes is closed vs open deck design. Only going to get to a certain point without addressing that on the EB.

There's been some high-end open deck motors in the Subaru community. Came down to tuning, components, and driver used whether they lasted or not.

 

[Alex]

There's been some high-end open deck motors in the Subaru community. Came down to tuning, components, and driver used whether they lasted or not.

One of the most famous high HP open decks is the N54

 

[dragonacc]

I am going to address the open deck on my car. I'd rather over build the first time.

 

[arghx7]

You sure you want to try and spend a bunch of money to solve a problem that may not exist?

 

[dragonacc]

You sure you want to try and spend a bunch of money to solve a problem that may not exist?

It won't be a bunch of money to me and I'd rather let someone else find the limit with their motor.

 

[Fast64ranchero]

If Ford Kept the Friction Washers on the cams then they didn't improve that area much, those things suck if not set up just right they slip.... but I guess they do work... KTM used them also, (and maybe others?) so it is not just Ford, even from the factory they slip on the KTM motors.
The head looks very different, the bottom end from the pictures looks like it is close, which makes me think it won't be long until people start removing the Aux. shaft. that thing was a heavy pig in the Mazda 2.3. (or swapping out the crank with a Ranger crank that doesn't have the Aux shaft gear on the crank)

It'll be a neat thing to watch as people start to really learn what these things can do, and what the limits are...
anyone had any problems with rod bearings

 

[Alex]

If Ford Kept the Friction Washers on the cams then they didn't improve that area much, those things suck if not set up just right they slip.... but I guess they do work... KTM used them also, (and maybe others?) so it is not just Ford, even from the factory they slip on the KTM motors.
The head looks very different, the bottom end from the pictures looks like it is close, which makes me think it won't be long until people start removing the Aux. shaft. that thing was a heavy pig in the Mazda 2.3. (or swapping out the crank with a Ranger crank that doesn't have the Aux shaft gear on the crank)

It'll be a neat thing to watch as people start to really learn what these things can do, and what the limits are...
anyone had any problems with rod bearings

For high HP builds - above 600whp on the Mazdas the crank and cams are keyed to avoid slipping.

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