Covid Shots

[gadgtfreek]

The Pfizer shot is 30 micrograms of vaccine, the Moderna is 100. It is my understanding that Moderna has been asked if they can lower the dosage while keeping the same effectiveness, which would be good for supply.

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[gadgtfreek]

Hello; this is what I was driving at back a few posts about only taking one of the virus vaccine shots. It seems that one shot can set the immune system in motion.

Also makes sense if you have a strong reaction to the first shot that your body was already previously exposed to the real virus. Might save a person from having to endure the immune system reaction by them having an antibody test first. With positive antibodies you likely do not need a vaccine.

On a side note- much of the discomfort we feel when sick with something like the flu is from the immune system. With the vaccine reaction we are some better off as we do not have the body cell destruction that goes with an infection of a real virus. So with cell damage the will be some additional misery.

Agreed. Some feel that if you have had Covid, you may only need one shot if that. I figure since I can't reverse time now, I'll take both and be done with it. I imagine the procedure and policy will continue to change over the coming months.

 

[CJJon]

The Pfizer shot is 30 micrograms of vaccine, the Moderna is 100. It is my understanding that Moderna has been asked if they can lower the dosage while keeping the same effectiveness, which would be good for supply.

0.3ml vs 0.5ml

 

[CJJon]

Agreed. Some feel that if you have had Covid, you may only need one shot if that. I figure since I can't reverse time now, I'll take both and be done with it. I imagine the procedure and policy will continue to change over the coming months.

We should stick with the current data for now and limit actions based on feelings. Indeed, things may change, but let's try and base the recommendations on data and science.

So, for now stick with the recommended two-shot regimen.

 

[gadgtfreek]

This is a pretty good PDF for anyone interested for a quick glance at some data


https://www.astho.org/COVID-19/Pfizer-Moderna-Vaccine-Comparison/

 

[gadgtfreek]

We should stick with the current data for now and limit actions based on feelings. Indeed, things may change, but let's try and base the recommendations on data and science.

So, for now stick with the recommended two-shot regimen.

Well, let's be honest. Your larger issue is going to be the fact that only 50% of Americans generally take the seasonal Influenza shot (I take one every year in Nov). Those same people likely will avoid this, but we will see how it goes. I know a lot of people that either A) had covid and aren't going to take the shot or b) just weren't going to take it anyways.

I avoid the argument, doing what is best for me based on what we know. I have three trips planned later in the year, it is one less thing to worry about being vaccinated.

 

[CJJon]

Well, let's be honest. Your larger issue is going to be the fact that only 50% of Americans generally take the seasonal Influenza shot (I take one every year in Nov). Those same people likely will avoid this, but we will see how it goes. I know a lot of people that either A) had covid and aren't going to take the shot or b) just weren't going to take it anyways.

I avoid the argument, doing what is best for me based on what we know. I have three trips planned later in the year, it is one less thing to worry about being vaccinated.

Indeed. We need 80% plus to be vaccinated to have any lasting effect.

We are in a foot race with the variants too. Still unknown who will win...

 

[sk47]

Indeed. We need 80% plus to be vaccinated to have any lasting effect.

We are in a foot race with the variants too. Still unknown who will win...

Hello; This is misleading. I will not argue the 80% but will the need for all to be vaccinated. Those infected and recovered will be immune, so some combination of recovered and vaccinated is the way to look at it. ( Not a feeling by the way)

 

[Sivi70980]

Indeed. We need 80% plus to be vaccinated to have any lasting effect.

We are in a foot race with the variants too. Still unknown who will win...

Did the % change recently? My nurse friends both said 70%. This is the kind of stuff that makes some of the issues resulting in medical professionals slamming their heads into walls I think. No united front or set standard breeds questions and then poof, the world is flat.

 

[CJJon]

Hello; This is misleading. I will not argue the 80% but will the need for all to be vaccinated. Those infected and recovered will be immune, so some combination of recovered and vaccinated is the way to look at it. ( Not a feeling by the way)

Not sure how that misleads. What is your idea based on then? THe CDC recommends vaccination for all even if you previously had covid infection.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/faq.html

Yes, you should be vaccinated regardless of whether you already had COVID-19. That’s because experts do not yet know how long you are protected from getting sick again after recovering from COVID-19. Even if you have already recovered from COVID-19, it is possible—although rare—that you could be infected with the virus that causes COVID-19 again. Learn more about why getting vaccinated is a safer way to build protection than getting infected.

If you were treated for COVID-19 with monoclonal antibodies or convalescent plasma, you should wait 90 days before getting a COVID-19 vaccine. Talk to your doctor if you are unsure what treatments you received or if you have more questions about getting a COVID-19 vaccine.

Experts are still learning more about how long vaccines protect against COVID-19 in real-world conditions. CDC will keep the public informed as new evidence becomes available.

 

[CJJon]

Did the % change recently? My nurse friends both said 70%. This is the kind of stuff that makes some of the issues resulting in medical professionals slamming their heads into walls I think. No united front or set standard breeds questions and then poof, the world is flat.

Estimates range from 70-90, so I go with 80%

 

[sk47]

Not sure how that misleads. What is your idea based on then? THe CDC recommends vaccination for all even if you previously had covid infection.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/faq.html

Yes, you should be vaccinated regardless of whether you already had COVID-19. That’s because experts do not yet know how long you are protected from getting sick again after recovering from COVID-19. Even if you have already recovered from COVID-19, it is possible—although rare—that you could be infected with the virus that causes COVID-19 again. Learn more about why getting vaccinated is a safer way to build protection than getting infected.

If you were treated for COVID-19 with monoclonal antibodies or convalescent plasma, you should wait 90 days before getting a COVID-19 vaccine. Talk to your doctor if you are unsure what treatments you received or if you have more questions about getting a COVID-19 vaccine.

Experts are still learning more about how long vaccines protect against COVID-19 in real-world conditions. CDC will keep the public informed as new evidence becomes available.

Hello; Interesting. So we dismiss the millions of years of human immune system evolution which was built upon even more millions of years of immune system evolution. I am supposed to accept your CDC recommendation over what I know to be correct.
While there are some conditions where doctors cure a health problem for sure, many times the body does the work. Often with assistance of medications and doctors.

The way I understand it a vaccine tricks the body into having an immune response. One of the hard issues was to find a way to disarm a real virus so that it would trigger the needed response without causing the actual infection. I do not know the details of how the new sorts of vaccines are made. Best I follow is they have a way to copy the outer shell of a virus with the proper protein projections and use replication techniques to make lots of copies.
A person infected with the actual virus has the real thing from which the body makes antibodies. Unless you are saying some how the antibodies from the vaccine are superior to antibodies from an actual infection I do not get the argument.

I get the CDC and perhaps some other agencies recommend all get vaccinated but this would suggest that somehow the immune response from a vaccine is better than the immune response from the survivor of a natural infection. Surprise me and give a straight answer.

This next bit is just to illustrate a point and is to be considered separate from Covid19. Some years ago there was a bad outbreak of Ebola. Medical personal from my country went to Africa to help with the outbreak. That was good and noble. However they wanted to come on back home when it suited them. I was among those asking for some sort of strict quarantine for anyone reentering from the infected areas, especially those in the medical field. Well the quarantine did not happen and we were told they would self-quarantine. Perhaps you recall how one such person decided to walk down to a local shop and broke the QT.
Many of us know too many such stories, including some from this covid19 pandemic. I get you think we are low sorts of life forms to doubt the CDC. But many do doubt and have good enough reasons.

 

[CJJon]

Hello; Interesting. So we dismiss the millions of years of human immune system evolution which was built upon even more millions of years of immune system evolution. I am supposed to accept your CDC recommendation over what I know to be correct.
While there are some conditions where doctors cure a health problem for sure, many times the body does the work. Often with assistance of medications and doctors.

The way I understand it a vaccine tricks the body into having an immune response. One of the hard issues was to find a way to disarm a real virus so that it would trigger the needed response without causing the actual infection. I do not know the details of how the new sorts of vaccines are made. Best I follow is they have a way to copy the outer shell of a virus with the proper protein projections and use replication techniques to make lots of copies.
A person infected with the actual virus has the real thing from which the body makes antibodies. Unless you are saying some how the antibodies from the vaccine are superior to antibodies from an actual infection I do not get the argument.

I get the CDC and perhaps some other agencies recommend all get vaccinated but this would suggest that somehow the immune response from a vaccine is better than the immune response from the survivor of a natural infection. Surprise me and give a straight answer.

This next bit is just to illustrate a point and is to be considered separate from Covid19. Some years ago there was a bad outbreak of Ebola. Medical personal from my country went to Africa to help with the outbreak. That was good and noble. However they wanted to come on back home when it suited them. I was among those asking for some sort of strict quarantine for anyone reentering from the infected areas, especially those in the medical field. Well the quarantine did not happen and we were told they would self-quarantine. Perhaps you recall how one such person decided to walk down to a local shop and broke the QT.
Many of us know too many such stories, including some from this covid19 pandemic. I get you think we are low sorts of life forms to doubt the CDC. But many do doubt and have good enough reasons.

I am sorry, but you are wrong. How is that for a straight answer?

Science does not work by intuition, which you are painfully trying to do. These are not my own arguments or conclusions.

 

[sk47]

I am sorry, but you are wrong. How is that for a straight answer?

Science does not work by intuition, which you are painfully trying to do. These are not my own arguments or conclusions.

Hello; Guess it will have to do. I will take it you do not know the answer. I am going to continue to consider an immune response from an actual infection is at least as good/strong as one from a vaccine. I welcome the chance to be educated about this. Does anyone else have the information?

Not sure where the bit about intuition came from. Another diversion I suppose. I do have an idea of how science works. I used the scientific method in classes for many years. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. For example the closest you came to an answer was this bit---

"you should be vaccinated regardless of whether you already had COVID-19. That’s because experts do not yet know how long you are protected from getting sick again after recovering from COVID-19. Even if you have already recovered from COVID-19, " ____

Could not the same thing be said about the protection from a vaccine? Is it not the case that the long term protection from a vaccine is not yet known and because the vaccines are new cannot yet be known? We do know from many years of disease study a lot about naturally acquired immunity, so there is at least some basis to figure it will last for some time.
Yet you contend somehow the vaccine immunity will be a better outcome. Based on what sort of proof? In the coming weeks, months and years these questions will be answered, but right now the new vaccines are just that, new.

I personally hope both the vaccines and the natural immunity will be long lasting.

 

[CJJon]

Hello; Guess it will have to do. I will take it you do not know the answer. I am going to continue to consider an immune response from an actual infection is at least as good/strong as one from a vaccine. I welcome the chance to be educated about this. Does anyone else have the information?

Not sure where the bit about intuition came from. Another diversion I suppose. I do have an idea of how science works. I used the scientific method in classes for many years. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. For example the closest you came to an answer was this bit---

"you should be vaccinated regardless of whether you already had COVID-19. That’s because experts do not yet know how long you are protected from getting sick again after recovering from COVID-19. Even if you have already recovered from COVID-19, " ____

Could not the same thing be said about the protection from a vaccine? Is it not the case that the long term protection from a vaccine is not yet known and because the vaccines are new cannot yet be known? We do know from many years of disease study a lot about naturally acquired immunity, so there is at least some basis to figure it will last for some time.
Yet you contend somehow the vaccine immunity will be a better outcome. Based on what sort of proof? In the coming weeks, months and years these questions will be answered, but right now the new vaccines are just that, new.

I personally hope both the vaccines and the natural immunity will be long lasting.

You are being intellectually lazy. I've pointed to the tip of the iceberg, go do some research if you want to take on the CDC (and my arguments). I do know some answers, for others I rely on the experts that I have pointed to again and again in this thread.

You continue to only offer your opinion about your intuitive feelings on the subject.

It is you making the extraordinary claims.

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