Another 9 second Hellion car/ now with “predator” 5.2/GT 350 heads

[gearhead2685]

Pretty much spot on. Stock 2650 TVS not enough, then octanium, then E85 and small ass pulley, then 4 bent rods!! Shit :doh: down for 4+ months.

Rinse repeat.

FIXED.doubt itll be a whipple stock i bet they use TVS again like the 5.8 Trinity GT500.

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[olaosunt]

LOL
Thanks man .That is some solid advice !
I think this stuff is a disease but I am close to ROCK bottom(at least my "secret "mod account is ).
I think it is time to just STOP !

Problem with that plan is , despite at least $35K I have invested in parts in both GT's now(without buying more parts ) I think I would be lucky to get $45k per car if I sold .....but at least I would stop the bleeding .

I would not lose as much if I sold the GT 350(or traded it ).Its a fun car on the street for sure and I bet it would be a "blast" if I ever "tracked it ",but I doubt I ever will (Its no fun at the strip though running low 12's)

I hear doing that stuff is even more expensive than drag racing (tires /brakes)!but probably won't break parts like drag racing does.

Anyway ,thanks for all the input guys .It helps me to laugh at all my troubles otherwise I would be clinically depressed by now .

 

[CGADAMS]

damn bro...

just sit back and have a beer... or ten...

 

[jhatley7]

damn bro...

just sit back and have a beer... or ten...

or 24 and have a good night's sleep and stress the little things tomorrow! :cheers:

 

[olaosunt]

What does the oil pressure drop to? What cam codes does it throw? I did a little polishing to one of my cam journals as well as it had a score in it. 4k miles on it so far with no issues. Unless they went crazy with it, I can't fathom it would make any kind of difference.

My guess would be wrong headgasket, an oil galley plug missing?

Thanks again man.

I think you were close to figuring out what the issue is.

I confirmed that the GT 350 head gaskets I used were right for the block.

By luck I came across the instruction booklet that comes with the GT 350 heads when you order the heads from Ford racing( I did not).

It turns out they recommend using different oil restrictors(which they include)with the GT 350 heads when using a stock GT oil pump.

The restrictors that come with the GT 350 heads for use with the GT 350 oil pump only have a 1.275 mm opening.The restrictors they include for use with the GT oil pump have a larger 2.2 mm opening, I presume because it is not a "high pressure" pump like the GT 350.

So either swapping the oil restrictors or using a GT 350 pump may fix the issue since I am sure the heads have the oil restrictors with the small opening.

MMR had clarified they had found that the GT 350 oil restrictors are also prone to getting blocked by lock tight being the opening is so small and they think that is the cause of the oiling issues on Heads others have experienced.

I had those heads on my KB car before with the GT 350 pumps, and if they were already restricted due to debris that could explain the scoring I found in the front cam journals.If they already has issues that were overcome by the GT 350 oil pump then matters of course would become worse with the lower pressure GT oil pump which may be what I am experiencing .

Either way motor still has to be pulled to swap the oil restrictors .My installer says the front cover and the chains will also have to come off.

I am now wondering if switching to a GT 350 oil pump AND using the restrictors with the larger opening would be the BEST combo or could it lead to "over oiling"?

 

[olaosunt]

Link to the instruction booklet .https://performanceparts.ford.com/download/instructionsheets/FordInstShtM-6049_or_6050-M52.pdf

 

[olaosunt]

 

[F1scamp]

Well we learn something new everyday. Hopefully nothing major got damaged. I did not know the 350's oil pump was higher pressure. I would have put it in mine. It is hard to get "too much" oiling as long as the drain back to the pan is good, and pan is big enough. If it eats up a couple more hp from the pump and windage, who cares on a street motor.

 

[sigintel]

Well we learn something new everyday. Hopefully nothing major got damaged. I did not know the 350's oil pump was higher pressure. I would have put it in mine. It is hard to get "too much" oiling as long as the drain back to the pan is good, and pan is big enough. If it eats up a couple more hp from the pump and windage, who cares on a street motor.

I wish I had taken more detailed pictures when I upgraded to GT350 pump housing and pan. The billet gears are the same in both.
There may be a difference in the oil filter bypass valve setting and pump housing flow restrictions as well.

Thanks again man.

I think you were close to figuring out what the issue is.

I confirmed that the GT 350 head gaskets I used were right for the block.

By luck I came across the instruction booklet that comes with the GT 350 heads when you order the heads from Ford racing( I did not).

It turns out they recommend using different oil restrictors(which they include)with the GT 350 heads when using a stock GT oil pump.

The restrictors that come with the GT 350 heads for use with the GT 350 oil pump only have a 1.275 mm opening.The restrictors they include for use with the GT oil pump have a larger 2.2 mm opening, I presume because it is not a "high pressure" pump like the GT 350.

So either swapping the oil restrictors or using a GT 350 pump may fix the issue since I am sure the heads have the oil restrictors with the small opening.

MMR had clarified they had found that the GT 350 oil restrictors are also prone to getting blocked by lock tight being the opening is so small and they think that is the cause of the oiling issues on Heads others have experienced.

I had those heads on my KB car before with the GT 350 pumps, and if they were already restricted due to debris that could explain the scoring I found in the front cam journals.If they already has issues that were overcome by the GT 350 oil pump then matters of course would become worse with the lower pressure GT oil pump which may be what I am experiencing .

Either way motor still has to be pulled to swap the oil restrictors .My installer says the front cover and the chains will also have to come off.

I am now wondering if switching to a GT 350 oil pump AND using the restrictors with the larger opening would be the BEST combo or could it lead to "over oiling"?

You can change to GT350 oil pan and pump in vehicle. I did it using a wood frame instead of a picker cause the freakn garage slab has a step in it where you cant roll a picker around. Took a weekend with drinkn. Took day just to set up frame to lift motor and hang lower member on chains a couple inches down.
PM if needed. I have a separate parts list somewhere if the GT350 pan/pump combo kit is showing as unavailable. You dont need the sensor and a couple other things that might show unavailable that would theoretically hold up complete kit shipping.
The restrictor helps balance flow so drilling it out might sacrifice flow else where.

Added bonus, you get to inspect your cylinder walls for ring transfer and take cool pictures for us since I didn't (loser). Im so dumb, staring with light forever thinkn damn this looks cool and then forgot when it was time to zip new pan on.

 

[olaosunt]

Well we learn something new everyday. Hopefully nothing major got damaged. I did not know the 350's oil pump was higher pressure. I would have put it in mine. It is hard to get "too much" oiling as long as the drain back to the pan is good, and pan is big enough. If it eats up a couple more hp from the pump and windage, who cares on a street motor.

Yeah.I am hoping so too.

if I had not had an oil pressure gauge installed before with the old engine we may not have been able to tell it was dropping oil pressure.

The engine starts up and runs fine with the oil pressure holding steady at 30-40 psi at idle(100 on start up ) untill CHT temps reach about 207.

My installer feels it would continue to run fine as long the temps stay below that

Soon after the temp reaches that (he had to drive it round the block for it to go up ) you see it drop on the gauge (it does have a low oil pressure light )and you hear tapping like sounds that he from the Valve train.

As soon as it starts to drop the engine is shut off immediately but it will a throw cam sensors position code.

He was going to have to pull the motor to swap the the restrictors and says the chains have to come off any way so he will take look at the state of heads then.

If there is any damage then I will just have to get new heads although I am also tempted to just get new ones now as don't think I trust those heads anymore .

Unfortunately I can't do any of this stuff my self so ,my labor charges (he does a reduced rate of $65 /hour ) are stacking up .
If I just swap the restrictors only to find out that does not solve the problem I will be out the labour to take out the motor again.

On the other hand if a $10 part (cost of the new restrictors) fixes the issue that would be awesome so it may be worth the gamble .

 

[olaosunt]

I wish I had taken more detailed pictures when I upgraded to GT350 pump housing and pan. The billet gears are the same in both.
There may be a difference in the oil filter bypass valve setting and pump housing flow restrictions as well.

You can change to GT350 oil pan and pump in vehicle. I did it using a wood frame instead of a picker cause the freakn garage slab has a step in it where you cant roll a picker around. Took a weekend with drinkn. Took day just to set up frame to lift motor and hang lower member on chains a couple inches down.
PM if needed. I have a separate parts list somewhere if the GT350 pan/pump combo kit is showing as unavailable. You dont need the sensor and a couple other things that might show unavailable that would theoretically hold up complete kit shipping.
The restrictor helps balance flow so drilling it out might sacrifice flow else where.

Added bonus, you get to inspect your cylinder walls for ring transfer and take cool pictures for us since I didn't (loser). Im so dumb, staring with light forever thinkn damn this looks cool and then forgot when it was time to zip new pan on.

Hey Boss
Thanks for the info(sending PM too)
Definitely interested in how to swap the oil pump/pan in vehicle .

The restrictors only cost $10 vs the cost of the oil pump/pan but if my installer could swap the pump/pan in the car, I could save on the labour of pulling the motor .
I would have to figure out how to make the GT 350 composite oil pan work with the Hellion kit since it will need to be tapped .

 

[olaosunt]

First time back at the strip after 2 years .lol
Motor/oil pressure issues was finally sorted out last winter by swapping all VCT for new. It turned out the cam phaser filters were clogged from previous engine failures. The good news is I have a perfectly good set of GT 350 heads sitting in my garage waiting on the next build .. built FP long block for the GT 350.

I also had BES build me a couple of 5.0 sleeved short blocks and I have 2 sets of GT heads to complete a long block so both cars have "spares". I saved about $2K per block using almost intact rotating assemblies/sleeving a good bare block(had to buy a new one for second short block since old one in KB car cracked in valley).

While I was chasing the cause of the oil pressure issues I decided to swap the old JB 55's for BB 62's .The 55's may have been leaking oil so had precsion rebuild them so I can have "spare" turbos too.lol

I had the car on the dyno last winter and it made good power with new tuner-Lund-(he also tunes the KB car and I am extremely pleased with his responsiveness and the tune)
Less timing than old tuner but knock sensors are left on. It would have made more but tires were slipping on the dyno

I put about 1000 street miles on the motor since spring and finally decided to run it today. I am seriously considering selling to cut my losses but wanted to make sure it runs good for any potential buyer.

It was to be a shake down pass only as I fully expected to get kicked out after one pass-IRP is pretty strict.

I have made a couple of 10.1/145+ passes in the KB car this year and have never been able to make 2 in one visit .lol

Difference from grey car is I was not even trying .
Second to lowest boost setting-45 duty cycle -peak boost was16 psi .I left the cutouts closed(makes 1 more psi per boost setting with them open)
Went straight as an arrow and was actually quite enjoyable.
Lol
It looked like there was a bit smoke out the exhaust at the end but it's running fine .
A bit more blow by from the catch can than I would like but I think that's to be expected .
IAT's were 160 plus at the end and tune was retarding timing but peak is still only about 19*
I think the Alluminator failed because the knock sensors were off in old tune and it commanded 22* still as IAT' s were up there .
I think the car has a high 8 /low 9 easily even at this boost level if I leave harder -I only foot braked to 2000 rpm .
Probably has a 1.4 60 in it off the foot brake like I was running before and may be 1.3 if I can get the 2 step to work .

I have a set of aerospace drag brakes (double rears and street fronts) I was going to install to run with 15 " ET pros but I am holding off as it may scare away any potential buyers.
I ran 17 inch ET R's(305/45) on race stars and bias ply skinnies on the pass. I was surprised the bias ply skinnies weigh about 20lbs less per tire than the sportsman's I ran last year on the same rim

The drag brake set up would probably pick up some mph and improve the 60 - the rear are double so will hold the car foot braking to even higher rpm
It might not even need the 2 step .

it is going to be hard to let go off the car .but if I keep her I can only make one pass per visit unless I cage it .

I could always drive to Muncie or Us 41 but don't really have the drive/energy these days or care for the tow costs.; lol

Anyone want a mid 9 second street car(truly is and that's not my trailer lol)..... the GT 500 Ford should have built... for half the price(with ADM).

 

[F1scamp]

Well you have that one running pretty good and you want to sell it. lol. Congrats man, there is no doubt it is making some steam!

 

[Boduke0220]

shit man keep the one you have running good lol

 

[olaosunt]

Both cars are actually running welll ...at the same time which is a first . I figure time to quit while am ahead . Lol

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