Speaker Only Upgrade

[slowrey]

So, to add to this thread, I'm going to try something "crazy". Just ordered
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/molex/34729-0160/?qs=1/kFHMS5B/hnocEnrlw0pQ==&countrycode=US&currencycode=USD
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/molex/34690-0160/?qs=uuFyUi8kYTVGdyq6swEIUg==&countrycode=US&currencycode=USD
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/molex/34803-3212-loose-piece/?qs=8%2bu/V6/T1OoXFsCHl9DAmA==&countrycode=US&currencycode=USD

Got these out of another thread here. This will allow me to solder together a T harness to the factory amplifier from the Sync 3 radio. (Note: I'm on 2016 Shaker Pro).

What I typically see folks do, use something like this or the DSR1 to intercept the RCAs. What I'm planning on doing: Using the T-Harness to create an in/out with RCAs, so it's a "pass through" connector for all wires, except the 8 wires (4 pairs) for the line level inputs. I'm going to route them to RCAs on both sides, and run them through a DSR1.

This way, I'll have cut no factory wires, and I'll have DSP control over the factory radio.

Drawbacks:
I will not have control over the center channel.
I will not have independent control over the sub channel - I may be able to fix this later, as the sub output from the Shaker Pro amp is listed as line level, and I could intercept it in the same way and run it through the DSR1.

Now, This could be a total flop of a project, and I'll end up finding some amps / speakers later, but for the low cost of parts plus a DSR1, I figured I'd give this a shot. Plus, it gives me an excuse to get my RTA gear out of mothballs (haven't tuned a car in a few years).

EDIT:
If I get speakers for Stock Amp, I'd probably do:
Hybrid Audio U6V2 in doors (no xover) 2 ohm - Factory speakers are 2 ohm, so this "should be fine" famous last words....
Hybrid Audio U3 midrange (center, doors)
Hybrid Audio U1 Tweeter
Hybrid Audio U2x for midrange/tweeter crossover. (xover point is 5.7kHz, should be good for this)
Rear: Something 6.5 and Coax? Hybrid Audio Mirus maybe.
Sub would be trivial to replace amp and sub using Shaker pro box. Seen folks on this forum do it using factory wiring or close to it. Factory sub has 20A of power available to it.

Did you put in Hybrids? I love my Hybrid Imagine 6.5's but they don't make 3.5" Imagines. Was thinking about the Unity sets using stock crossovers and amps.

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[krishelnino]

So how did it go with the Focals?

Well it has been a nightmare since i took that decision and i'm still trying to get everything working properly. The Focal tweeters sounded terrible possibly because i didn't use the crossover (can't use the crossover with stock amp); my suspicion is they were getting a full range signal. But i could notice a difference in the mids and bass with the Focals. I put back the stock tweeters in temporarily for a week to atleast be able to listen to something. After not wanting to go the amp route and do a complete install, i finally caved in and pulled the trigger (there was no going back to stock at this point). I took it to a shop to get everything installed due to lack of time

Here is the setup i went with to complement the Focal 165AS3 3-ways at the front
Rockford Fosgate DSR1 + iDatalink Harness
Focal Access 165AS coax for the rear deck
JL 8w3v3 subwoofer
Alpine PDR-V75 amp 75Wx4

After doing this, the difference over stock was huge So much more crisp and clear vocals, the midrange was much better and not muddy like before. The bass hit so much more harder and tighter. I had to turn down bass to 0 or +1 on the settings and can no longer feel the bass from trunk subwoofer (the front 6.5" have plenty of bass in them). Keep in mind that i prefer SQ over thumping bass so that was my goal with this setup. However I had few issues

i) I could hear a annoying hissing noise whenever Sync is turned on; can be noticed at 0 volume. Also there is a pop whenever i crank the engine on.
ii) The doors were rattling pretty bad because the midrange speakers were contacting the trim panel. They had to make new custom mounts for it.
iii) the focal tweeters were little bright for me, i set it down all the way to -7 in the settings. probably could tone it down a little bit more using the DSR1 i think?
iv) The system sounds very good when car is stationary. As soon as i start driving on the highway some of that SQ is lost. And i couldn't listen for extended periods, possibly due to the harshness of the tweeters i think. I wanted to get the doors and trunk sound deadened to take care of this.

So took it back to the shop to get the rattling fixed. I thought probably the speakers needed more power so i upgraded the amp to AudioControl LC 6.1200 125WX6. The good thing is it got rid of the pop whenever i crank the engine on
However i still have the annoying hiss (the gain knobs are set at 3/4 of max and if i turn them down to like 1/2 it's much less)
The volume is way too low, due to an issue with DSR1 (the installer still couldn't figure out why and he's been talking to the technical support since few days)

I'll be taking back the car again tomorrow to get the volume issue fixed and get it properly tuned. I'm already way over my budget (at 2.5k now) and i was very hesitant on doing this for an year, but i've realized it's either upgrade all or nothing with this car. To anyone considering the Focal 3-ways for the front, i'd recommend against it. I'm still regretting that decision but hopefully everything gets fixed and fingers crossed i'll have a good sounding system.

 

[slowrey]

Well it has been a nightmare since i took that decision and i'm still trying to get everything working properly. The Focal tweeters sounded terrible possibly because i didn't use the crossover (can't use the crossover with stock amp); my suspicion is they were getting a full range signal. But i could notice a difference in the mids and bass with the Focals. I put back the stock tweeters in temporarily for a week to atleast be able to listen to something. After not wanting to go the amp route and do a complete install, i finally caved in and pulled the trigger (there was no going back to stock at this point). I took it to a shop to get everything installed due to lack of time

Here is the setup i went with to complement the Focal 165AS3 3-ways at the front
Rockford Fosgate DSR1 + iDatalink Harness
Focal Access 165AS coax for the rear deck
JL 8w3v3 subwoofer
Alpine PDR-V75 amp 75Wx4

After doing this, the difference over stock was huge So much more crisp and clear vocals, the midrange was much better and not muddy like before. The bass hit so much more harder and tighter. I had to turn down bass to 0 or +1 on the settings and can no longer feel the bass from trunk subwoofer (the front 6.5" have plenty of bass in them). Keep in mind that i prefer SQ over thumping bass so that was my goal with this setup. However I had few issues

i) I could hear a annoying hissing noise whenever Sync is turned on; can be noticed at 0 volume. Also there is a pop whenever i crank the engine on.
ii) The doors were rattling pretty bad because the midrange speakers were contacting the trim panel. They had to make new custom mounts for it.
iii) the focal tweeters were little bright for me, i set it down all the way to -7 in the settings. probably could tone it down a little bit more using the DSR1 i think?
iv) The system sounds very good when car is stationary. As soon as i start driving on the highway some of that SQ is lost. And i couldn't listen for extended periods, possibly due to the harshness of the tweeters i think. I wanted to get the doors and trunk sound deadened to take care of this.

So took it back to the shop to get the rattling fixed. I thought probably the speakers needed more power so i upgraded the amp to AudioControl LC 6.1200 125WX6. The good thing is it got rid of the pop whenever i crank the engine on
However i still have the annoying hiss (the gain knobs are set at 3/4 of max and if i turn them down to like 1/2 it's much less)
The volume is way too low, due to an issue with DSR1 (the installer still couldn't figure out why and he's been talking to the technical support since few days)

I'll be taking back the car again tomorrow to get the volume issue fixed and get it properly tuned. I'm already way over my budget (at 2.5k now) and i was very hesitant on doing this for an year, but i've realized it's either upgrade all or nothing with this car. To anyone considering the Focal 3-ways for the front, i'd recommend against it. I'm still regretting that decision but hopefully everything gets fixed and fingers crossed i'll have a good sounding system.

Thanks for the update @krishelnino , gosh I really don't want to go the customer speaker/amp/DSP route uggh. I really wish my Imagine (Hybrid Audio Tech) speakers fit and may try them but we'll see. Thanks for all of the good information.

 

[Cathul]

So took it back to the shop to get the rattling fixed. I thought probably the speakers needed more power so i upgraded the amp to AudioControl LC 6.1200 125WX6. The good thing is it got rid of the pop whenever i crank the engine on
However i still have the annoying hiss (the gain knobs are set at 3/4 of max and if i turn them down to like 1/2 it's much less)
The volume is way too low, due to an issue with DSR1 (the installer still couldn't figure out why and he's been talking to the technical support since few days)

Hiss is most probably really a gain issue. Which RF firmware is flashed on the DSR1? Which Maestro firmware is flashed on the DSR1? Latest are 1.9.4 for RF and 1.5 for Maestro car specific part. And I got no volume or hiss problems. If you are on 1.9.4 try 1.9.3 and so on until you find the problem.
Both your problems are related.... due to too low volume on the DSR1 your installer raised the gain which then also amplifies the floor noise which you can hear as "hiss". Fixing the volume problem will fix the hissing problem.
Had that at one time, too when the DSR1 was still flashed as universal device. When flashed as universal device it will work with the Ford Mustang specific harness, but you can set the input sensitivity on the DSR1 from between 0.5 to 8. When set to 1 or 2 the volume was way too low so you would need to raise the gain to adapt the amp to the lower voltage out of the DSR1. When set to 4 (which matches the max output voltage of the headunit) i was able to lower the gain by a large amount and got rid of all audible hiss (maybe it's still there, but very faint and it cannot be heared as soon as the engine is running).

That said you should always flash the DSR1 with the car specific firmware as this automatically sets the correct sensitivity on the DSR1 and the routing of all input signals et. al. This way you should be able to set the gains correctly to prevent gain related noise floor.

 

[wsfrazier]

So I just wanted to do a speaker upgrade and nothing else, should I just look into a 3-way component setup and not use the crossovers? Maybe put a capacitor on the tweeter to filter out the mid/low range from hitting them? Or should I just do something more simple like the PowerBass OE65C-FD factory replacement?

Any 3-way system I should look into that fits in the factory doors without any fab work?

 

[krishelnino]

Hiss is most probably really a gain issue. Which RF firmware is flashed on the DSR1? Which Maestro firmware is flashed on the DSR1? Latest are 1.9.4 for RF and 1.5 for Maestro car specific part. And I got no volume or hiss problems. If you are on 1.9.4 try 1.9.3 and so on until you find the problem.
Both your problems are related.... due to too low volume on the DSR1 your installer raised the gain which then also amplifies the floor noise which you can hear as "hiss". Fixing the volume problem will fix the hissing problem.
Had that at one time, too when the DSR1 was still flashed as universal device. When flashed as universal device it will work with the Ford Mustang specific harness, but you can set the input sensitivity on the DSR1 from between 0.5 to 8. When set to 1 or 2 the volume was way too low so you would need to raise the gain to adapt the amp to the lower voltage out of the DSR1. When set to 4 (which matches the max output voltage of the headunit) i was able to lower the gain by a large amount and got rid of all audible hiss (maybe it's still there, but very faint and it cannot be heared as soon as the engine is running).

That said you should always flash the DSR1 with the car specific firmware as this automatically sets the correct sensitivity on the DSR1 and the routing of all input signals et. al. This way you should be able to set the gains correctly to prevent gain related noise floor.

I think i have the exact same problem what you had. I checked the gains on Audio Control amp and they're set at like 3/4 of max. I've lowered them to like 1/2 and the hiss is almost gone however the volume is lower as expected.

What the installer told me was he tried to setup everything in vehicle specific mode, but the volume was too low. He called techsupport but still couldn't figure out what's causing this. So what he ended up doing was set everything in Universal mode
I checked the firmware for DSR1 and it's 1.9.4 however the Maestro is flashed in universal mode i think like v1.4. And i checked the input configuration too it's set to 0.5 RMS. Setting anything higher than it results in lower volume levels.
My fade doesn't work now, like if i fade it to rear, there's no audio (only works when set to center). Also for some reason it only works if set to 'Aux' and not 'Main'. I've attached some pics of how it's setup now.

Thanks for all your help @Cathul, you've very helpful and knowledgeable in the whole process. If you have any suggestions to fix this, i'd mention to the installer. Taking the car back on Friday

View attachment 396097

 

[Cathul]

Ok, you or your installer should reflash it with the correct Maestro firmware. The thing with Main and Aux is only occurring when flashed to universal firmware and caused by the wiring of the adapter. The rear channels are patched to the AUX input in the connector at the DSR1 side. This is solved when you correctly flash the car specific firmware, which is on version 1.5 at the moment. I'm on RF firmware 1.9.3 (you're on 1.9.4) still and got no problems, but i'm also not using a bass knob on the DSR1. Maybe try to downgrade the Rockford side to 1.9.3 as the RF side is dealing with all the DSP related stuff, i.e. also the output voltage.

Before doing anything on your own or through the installer, make a backup of your current settings in the RF PerfectTune app on your smart device! I cannot stress this enough. Make a backup or better two backups!

You can flash the DSR1 on your own, but you need to disconnect the two DSR1 input cables for this.
When running the Maestro flasher the first question the software is asking you is if you want to flash a car specific firmware or not, choose the year and make of your car, then choose the model (Mustang obviously), then the OEM radio you had and then the recommended firmware.
After that the flashing process will start. When finished you no longer can switch between Main and AUX and the input sensitivity is correctly set in the DSR1 for the ACM in the Mustang (it doesn't matter if SYNC2 or SYNC3, the ACM is almost always the same).

Read up the whole process here: RF DSR1 help

Also check the small switch on the output side of the DSR1. I cannot remember how many times i accidentally set these switch to high level when fiddling with that device in my car. When accidentally setting the switch to high level the DSR1 expects a much stronger signal voltage than you actually feed into the car. When flashing the car specific firmware the flasher usually reminds you to set the switch to low-level.

After that you should reset the gains on the amp, but remember, better set it a bit lower than too high. If it's not loud enough, you need more power (which the Audiocontrols should have enough from), not more gain. Gain only adjusts the input sensitivity of the amp to the output voltage of the DSR1.
The amp will always provide 6x125W max (simplified), higher gain only means you reach this max output earlier, f.e. when setting the volume to 15 instead of 30. But anything more than 15 on the volume knob will lead to distortion and this will kill your speakers as the amp tries to deliver more than 6x125W, but is not able to.

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