Double pumping brakes after new fluid and pads

Seems like both my inside front bleed screws are leaking. They were pushing out a little fluid after they were bled and the screw tighten. Anyone know the specs for replacement ones? FR3Z2208C is the part number but I can't find the specs.

Niz55 said:

So with the scan tool do I still need to use my motive bleeder?

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Short answer: yes, you do.

First do a regular bleeding with the Motive bleeder, then the ABS bleeding procedure triggered through ForScan (or any other suitable tool).
And eventually do another bleeding with the Motive bleeder until all bubbles are out of the system.

Falk03 said:

Short answer: yes, you do.

First do a regular bleeding with the Motive bleeder, then the ABS bleeding procedure triggered through ForScan (or any other suitable tool).
And eventually do another bleeding with the Motive bleeder until all bubbles are out of the system.

Click to expand...

Sounds good thank you

I just flushed the brakes on my 2004 4runner using the autel and it was very easy and simple. I just activate the abs system from the wireless controller and it told me to crack the nipples open and press ok. It automatically turned on the pump and brake fluid came out pouring into my catch bottle.

I wish the Shelby process would be the same but I dout it.

Hi guys! Sorry I have not updated my findings yet, but this entire week the builder has been replacing my driveway.That means that the car has been out of the house and will probably still be out next week too. Which means I will not be bleeding my brakes for a little while unless I find a friend willing to let me work on his garage...

I did buy the pressurized system for bleeding the brakes. I have everything I need I just need a place to do it.

I'll for sure post an update as soon as I do it, in the mean time if any of you has success or attempts to fix it please share it with us!!!!!

All, I'm confused as to you why you think the ABS system needs activated if air has not been introduced (which it should not if bled properly). I just went through this procedure two weeks ago, and did a track day the following weekend. The brakes felt great. The pedal felt identical to the day before the bleed.

My procedure was as follows:

Using a Motive power bleeder I pressurized the master cylinder and cracked the right rear bleeder. I let the fluid drain into a pan while keeping an eye on the master cylinder fluid level. The point is to get as much old fluid out of the reservoir. IMPORTANT-DO NOT let the fluid go below any lines that entire the reservoir. I then closed the bleeder and added the new fluid to the Motive bleeder container (3 bottles of Motul RB660). I then pressurized the system again and re-cracked the right rear bleeder and let it bleed until I saw the new fluid. It was difficult to see, so I made sure to let it bleed for a good bit to ensure flushing the line. I then went to the left rear and repeated the procedure, letting it bleed for a couple minutes to make sure I got all of the old stuff out. Then the right front; inner bleed screw first, then outer, and then to the left front. Same thing. I used up all three bottles of the Motul during the process. During this whole deal, no air bubbles came out of any of the calipers, that is because air was never introduced into the system, it was "tight" hydraulically speaking.

Short story long, there is zero need to bleed the ABS as long as the system has never had air introduced. I've done it this way on every car I've had, and never had an issue. The important thing to remember is you are bleeding the brakes in order to flush the calipers. The fluids potential to boil is in the calipers, not in the lines, or the ABS unit. They don't get anywhere near the temperature of the caliper.

If you changed the master cylinder, drained all of the fluid, or otherwise let air into the system, then the ABS module will definitely need cycled. But to just push old fluid out with new fluid, it is completely unnecessary.

Ryan P said:

All, I'm confused as to you why you think the ABS system needs activated if air has not been introduced (which it should not if bled properly). I just went through this procedure two weeks ago, and did a track day the following weekend. The brakes felt great. The pedal felt identical to the day before the bleed.

My procedure was as follows:

Using a Motive power bleeder I pressurized the master cylinder and cracked the right rear bleeder. I let the fluid drain into a pan while keeping an eye on the master cylinder fluid level. The point is to get as much old fluid out of the reservoir. IMPORTANT-DO NOT let the fluid go below any lines that entire the reservoir. I then closed the bleeder and added the new fluid to the Motive bleeder container (3 bottles of Motul RB660). I then pressurized the system again and re-cracked the right rear bleeder and let it bleed until I saw the new fluid. It was difficult to see, so I made sure to let it bleed for a good bit to ensure flushing the line. I then went to the left rear and repeated the procedure, letting it bleed for a couple minutes to make sure I got all of the old stuff out. Then the right front; inner bleed screw first, then outer, and then to the left front. Same thing. I used up all three bottles of the Motul during the process. During this whole deal, no air bubbles came out of any of the calipers, that is because air was never introduced into the system, it was "tight" hydraulically speaking.

Short story long, there is zero need to bleed the ABS as long as the system has never had air introduced. I've done it this way on every car I've had, and never had an issue. The important thing to remember is you are bleeding the brakes in order to flush the calipers. The fluids potential to boil is in the calipers, not in the lines, or the ABS unit. They don't get anywhere near the temperature of the caliper.

If you changed the master cylinder, drained all of the fluid, or otherwise let air into the system, then the ABS module will definitely need cycled. But to just push old fluid out with new fluid, it is completely unnecessary.

Click to expand...

We're sort of grabbing at straws trying to solve a very specific issue. The ABS bleed may indeed not help, but there is only one way to find out.

If you don't have experience with the issue we're having, then what worked for you isn't terribly useful data. We've all flushed the brakes (without bleeding the abs) before and know the normal procedure for that quite well, and yet the problem remains.

I was just trying to offer a procedure that would guarantee not having the issues you guys are describing. You mentioned running your reservoir dry, obviously, your situation is different and cycling the ABS may very well solve your problem.

Anyone that's had this issue resolved it yet?

Not quite, but I have 6 pints of Ford fluid, and 3 bottles of SRF ready to go in, and the latest Forscan app downloaded onto the PC. Probably do the job this weekend.

[Edit]
Job's done, First, I flushed the entire system with Ford fluid (because its cheap) to clear out any bubbles, and then did the ABS bleed with Forscan and final complete flush with Castrol SRF.

Pedal does seem good right now, but the real test will be if it stays this consistent lapping at CotA in a couple of weeks.

I did seem to get some bubbles out from deep in the system, that or some air was creeping around the bleeder screws when flushing with the thinner Ford low viscosity fluid. I can never really tell.

YES!!! my pedal height and feel are back! :cheers:

First of all, sorry for the late post. I was not able for one reason or the other to work/fix this until this past Sunday... Hang on, this is going to be a long post.

Several things happened before and after Sunday. Overall it seemed to have been a compounded problem.

First, I found small amounts of air on the rear passenger caliper. I was going to use the Motive Pressure system that I bought. However, The adapter for the reservoir was wrong. I had to then buy one of the Mityvac vacuum system. I have to say I DO NOT! like the concept of vacuum for bleeding. It lets air in from the threads on the nipple. I was only able to make it better by putting grease around the nipple. It is not a perfect solution and then you have to clean all that up. :tsk: BUT, the car felt better after that, I did not feel the need to re-press the pedal to gain confidence. But it was still not 100% as it was before I messed with the brakes. I did went for a few track days and "fun" days in a road course in "Mexico" that activated the ABS quite a few times LoL . Even made it into "Adam LZ" youtube channel, where he chased me around the course!

Second thing was, After this weekend race @ Daytona, I decided I should go back to my OEM Performance Pack pads to minimize the dust on the wheels during daily driving. And here I found what I think contributed the most to a low pedal feel or low engagement point. The rear calipers we all know they are screw in pistons. Well, when I screwed them in to fit my track pads I did not confirm that the grooves on the piston where in the right position to fit the stud on the pad before putting the caliper back. I noticed that the piston had the mark of the metal stud from the pad in the raised portion of it. This simple and basic mistake happened in both sides of the car. Then I looked at the pads themselves and noticed the inside one (the one with the round stud) was being worn uneven which confirms that the caliper was not set right and applying force unevenly due to my mistake.

Because it was late Sunday, I needed the car Monday morning for work and I had already done the fronts, I decided to continue with replacing the pads with the OEM ones, but this time I payed close attention to the position of the groove in the piston before putting it back.

I went for a two minute ride and the difference was instantaneous. It even made the E-brake engage a little lower.
:eyebulge::eyebulge::eyebulge: SUPER HAPPY

I do feel dumb for screwing the install of the pads, but I honestly believe it is easy to forget to set the piston groove right, specially if trying to do more than one thing at a time or rushing through things. Also, this problem along with a little bit of air in the line was definitely a combination that took me by surprise with a brake behavior that I had not seen before.

I hope my experience helps someone else in the future! I recommend to take a look at the pistons on the rear calipers. This problem reduces braking capacity on the back. This heavy cars need brake balance (F/R) performance to be on point as I learned over the past few weeks.

THANK YOU ALL for the help and shearing your knowledge and experience.

TL : DR

You didn't have your rear pads in correctly ?

The pads were right. The problem was the piston on the caliper. It has a groove (or cutout) that should be in the right position to allow the pad and the piston to sit flat against each other. Because you are turning the piston to push it in and make space for the new pad, it is easy to turn the piston too far, and not aligning the groove correctly.

^Glad you got it figured out. If you call Motive they will exchange your adapter free of charge. I ordered the wrong one as well. You need #1100. They also sell a nicer looking aluminum adapter, but it's really not necessary. The plastic one works great.

I will have to do that. I really think the Motive will be faster and easier to use.