Science is now cancelled? [USERS NOW BANNED FOR POLITICS]

[CJJon]

Different variant?

Or the first non-event wasn't really Covid. How was it diagnosed?

Tests are not infallible - far from it.

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[Strokerswild]

Or the first non-event wasn't really Covid. How was it diagnosed?

Tests are not infallible - far from it.

Swabs, both times. Agreed on tests.

 

[RPDBlueMoon]

Oh it can't be described if you get a chance to see one up really close. A good buddy of mine had a friend who was some kind of ground support engineer, involved in aerospace, had a consulting gig with NASA and invited us to a shuttle launch down at Kennedy (it was an early 90s Endeavour mission), we were in a close observation area.

Holy f***ing hell, I think I went into a moment of shock, it's just the most awing thing I'd ever witnessed.

Have you talk to your buddy about the recent launches? I wonder what advancements in rocket technology have been made over the years. The space ships back then were a lot bigger and look different than what they are now. Don't really know what has changed

Do you know how far away you were? Definitely a once in a lifetime experience to witness a shuttle launch up close

 

[sk47]

...but what about this/

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm

I posted this before though. But, whatevs...

Although laboratory evidence suggests that antibody responses following COVID-19 vaccination provide better neutralization of some circulating variants than does natural infection (1,2), few real-world epidemiologic studies exist to support the benefit of vaccination for previously infected persons. This report details the findings of a case-control evaluation of the association between vaccination and SARS-CoV-2 reinfection in Kentucky during May–June 2021 among persons previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 in 2020. Kentucky residents who were not vaccinated had 2.34 times the odds of reinfection compared with those who were fully vaccinated (odds ratio [OR] = 2.34; 95% confidence interval [CI] = 1.58–3.47). These findings suggest that among persons with previous SARS-CoV-2 infection, full vaccination provides additional protection against reinfection. To reduce their risk of infection, all eligible persons should be offered vaccination, even if they have been previously infected with SARS-CoV-2.*

Hello; Still does not change the fact natural immunity is plenty good enough. If I have a rain suit that is keeping me dry, do I need to put on a second layer? ( that is an analogy by the way. Not meant to mimic how a viral infection works. )

The process of natural immunity has been known for a long time and still works as it always does. There is on top of that long term knowledge mounting current evidence that natural immunity works in the specific case of covid virus.

 

[CJJon]

Hello; Still does not change the fact natural immunity is plenty good enough.

Wut?

It does just that.

These findings suggest that among persons with previous SARS-CoV-2 infection, full vaccination provides additional protection against reinfection.

Maybe your definition of 'plenty good enough' needs to be explained or you are having comprehension issues.

 

[CJJon]

Have you talk to your buddy about the recent launches? I wonder what advancements in rocket technology have been made over the years. The space ships back then were a lot bigger and look different than what they are now. Don't really know what has changed

Do you know how far away you were? Definitely a once in a lifetime experience to witness a shuttle launch up close

Composites are way better. Engine tech is about the same.

EDIT: Software and computer power is key too.

 

[RPDBlueMoon]

A friend's wife got Covid a second time, and it almost killed her. The first time was a total non-event. She thought she would be fine after Round 1.

Take from that what you will.

Yeah Natural immunity is not 100% effective. It is good but not perfect as we are all different and have our own unique DNA. There are just way too many factors that come into play, and why just about every study done on natural immunity with COVID are observational studies instead of experiments which gives you a better understanding of what's really going on. This happens all the time with health studies. COVID can also put stress on certain organs and do damage so I imagine a 2nd fight with COVID will not be good especially if you have other issues.

 

[sk47]

Wut?

It does just that.

These findings suggest that among persons with previous SARS-CoV-2 infection, full vaccination provides additional protection against reinfection.

Maybe your definition of 'plenty good enough' needs to be explained or you are having comprehension issues.

Hello; I have already done so a few posts back. The additional protection is apparently based on a temporary increase in antibodies. You claim to have understanding of things medical, so you must know antibody levels wane over time whether from the shots or natural immunity. If we never are exposed to a virus again the active antibodies slowly reduce in numbers. If later on we are exposed to the same virus the natural immune system can and does make more antibodies as needed.
Having an extra layer of antibodies which is over the natural immunity amount may sound like an improvement, but if the natural immunity amount is enough already, then what is the actual value?

 

[CJJon]

Yeah Natural immunity is not 100% effective. It is good but not perfect as we are all different and have our own unique DNA. There are just way too many factors that come into play, and why just about every studies done on natural immunity with COVID are observational studies instead of experiments which gives you a better understanding of what's really going on. This happens all the time with health studies. COVID can also put stress on certain organs and do damage so I imagine a 2nd fight with COVID will not be good especially if you have other issues.

Yep, and the risk from vaccination is infinitesimally small and complications extremely rare compared to covid reinfecton.

 

[sk47]

Yeah Natural immunity is not 100% effective. It is good but not perfect as we are all different and have our own unique DNA. There are just way too many factors that come into play, and why just about every studies done on natural immunity with COVID are observational studies instead of experiments which gives you a better understanding of what's really going on. This happens all the time with health studies. COVID can also put stress on certain organs and do damage so I imagine a 2nd fight with COVID will not be good especially if you have other issues.

Hello; I have been careful to say those who recover from covid on their own ought to have a good natural immunity.
Those who wind up in hospital and/or have to have a lot of clinical or medication help to survive are not as likely to have a good natural immune system at work.

 

[CJJon]

Hello; I have already done so a few posts back. The additional protection is apparently based on a temporary increase in antibodies. You claim to have understanding of things medical, so you must know antibody levels wane over time whether from the shots or natural immunity. If we never are exposed to a virus again the active antibodies slowly reduce in numbers. If later on we are exposed to the same virus the natural immune system can and does make more antibodies as needed.
Having an extra layer of antibodies which is over the natural immunity amount may sound like an improvement, but if the natural immunity amount is enough already, then what is the actual value?

You really are missing it. The risk of dying from reinfection is not zero. The risk of complications after reinfection is not zero. IOW, people die and get very sick even after they have had covid the third time.

What will improve your odds of reinfection? Getting vaccinated. What risk is there of that? Almost nil.

 

[CJJon]

Hello; I have been careful to say those who recover from covid on their own ought to have a good natural immunity.
Those who wind up in hospital and/or have to have a lot of clinical or medication help to survive are not as likely to have a good natural immune system at work.

DING! Winner-Winner, Chicken-Dinner!

...and that sir is why it is recommended that everyone get vaccinated.

 

[sk47]

Yep, and the risk from vaccination is infinitesimally small and complications extremely rare compared to covid reinfecton.

Hello; I refer to post #5,602 on page 374. ( one page ago) In that post I highlighted three statements about natural immunity and reinfection. Not that long ago. The evidence is mounting.

 

[sk47]

DING! Winner-Winner, Chicken-Dinner!

...and that sir is why it is recommended that everyone get vaccinated.

Hello; No, not everyone needs to get the shots. Those who get covid and wind up in hospital for heavy treatment have shown they do not have an immune system that can fight off the infection. They may have benefit from the shots. Pretty sure those who had the infection will know if they had to go to hospital or have serious help to recover.
Most of the millions who had the covid virus stayed home and recovered on their own have a proven immune system for a particular virus. Some even had the infection and their immune system fought it off so well they did not get very sick at all. Those people should be naturally immune.
At any rate it is their choice to risk the side effects of the shots. Now more and more information is coming out that natural immunity is robust and is long lasting. Seems to be proving to be more than just good enough.

 

[RPDBlueMoon]

Hello; Still does not change the fact natural immunity is plenty good enough. If I have a rain suit that is keeping me dry, do I need to put on a second layer? ( that is an analogy by the way. Not meant to mimic how a viral infection works. )

The process of natural immunity has been known for a long time and still works as it always does. There is on top of that long term knowledge mounting current evidence that natural immunity works in the specific case of covid virus.

Hello; I have been careful to say those who recover from covid on their own ought to have a good natural immunity.
Those who wind up in hospital and/or have to have a lot of clinical or medication help to survive are not as likely to have a good natural immune system at work.

You do realize that your memory t-cells do not last forever and are stabilized by homeostasis meaning that they are constantly being reshuffled? Natural immunity doesn't always work thats the thing, it 'naturally' fades away with time. It also wildly varies from person to person. It doesn't matter if you had a tough recovery. You can be fine completely the next time you get infected. There are other factors such has age, and other comorbidities (not including genetic factors) that come into play which is why scientists always do their best to control for those factors when designing an experiment or performing a study, and even then they can't get everything.

Just like the vaccines, mutations in the virus that increases its binding affinity lets it escape the immune response. Natural immunity is better but only up until a certain point, I doubt that the antibodies of everyone that has previously had COIVID is more effective than the ones from a person who just had the COIVD booster shot.

Natural immunity only works when the virus doesn't have a mutation that increases its virulence. Because the virus is running rampant, that gives it more chances to mutate and form a genetically distinct variant.

Natural immunity works because our immune system would be worthless if we didn't do that. Is it better than nothing? Yes, but don't act as if natural immunity doesn't have any drawbacks and is better than being vaccinated.

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