It’s coming... 3 States have now banned future combustion engine car sales

[Cobra Jet]

My thoughts on the whole “EV evolution” is the “pollution” aspect is being shifted.

As others have said, instead of fossil fuel and exhaust you’re now going to have excessive manufacturing pollution to get the materials needed for the battery production, and there will be huge landfills with EV batteries and no real way of recycling all of the waste 100%.

Most likely you will also find that all Utilities Companies will start increasing their rates to consumers in an effort to maintain these EV services due to the excessive increase on their infrastructure and the need for adding universal “charging stations” nationwide.

And an EV vehicle fire is more challenging than a ICE vehicle fire - I guess no one has looked at the bigger picture yet.

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[GreenS550]

The EV move and other progressive measures are not designed to save the planet. They are designed to enforce control over personal choices. Witness the states that have done lockdowns destroying many businesses.

There is no logic and when facts are presented the usual answer is not intelligent debate using serious scientific research, it will come down to a comment like "you just don't care". It is called an ad hominem attack.

Feelings trump facts.

 

[bluebeastsrt]

The OP brought this up. Keep voting Democrat and this is what every state will look like.

This is unfortunately very true. New York rep AOC tweeted Just today. Calling for sweeping progressive change across America.
Ready to PUSH for retroactive COVID relief?

And to PUSH for student loan cancellation?

For climate justice?

Healthcare?



WHAT THE FUCK IS CLIMATE JUSTICE?

 

[GreenS550]

The currency will be gone sooner than later as the covid stuff opened the door to both sides to spend money like water over a dam.

Every country in the world has gone through currency replacement except the U.S. Wealth can't be printed, it must come from labor and goods and services. The people running the U.S. have no real understanding of this. Or, they do not care. Stupidity or immorality. Take our pick.

The French and Bolshevik revolutions destroyed personal property rights, caused millions of deaths and both countries never recovered. They are shells of what they once were.

The U.S. is headed down this path and I, for one, do not believe it will recover.

 

[Stage_3]

All of the States? Nah. Most States are not going to force consumers into a vehicle they don't want.

Pretty sure it'll be all states at some point.

 

[Stage_3]

This is unfortunately very true. New York rep AOC tweeted Just today. Calling for sweeping progressive change across America.
Ready to PUSH for retroactive COVID relief?
And to PUSH for student loan cancellation?
For climate justice?
Healthcare?
WHAT THE FUCK IS CLIMATE JUSTICE?

LMFAO Climate Justice. LMFAO
Scary times my friend. Scary times.

 

[Rogues Gambit]

I don't get this whole electrification of all transportation. It's like all these people think electricity is free, comes out of thin air and it's creation has 0 pollution. Until we can create electricity safely, cleanly and efficiently, this will all just be a transition to a different type of pollution. Instead of it coming of out the tailpipes, the same pollution is going to come out of dirty power plants, dirty mines and dirty battery plants.

My bet is that in 20-30 years there will be a whole slew of new environmentalists out there bitching about how dirty and dangerous (in the case of nuclear) the electricity and batteries are.

Agenda 21, UN2030, they wanna control the movement of we the sheeple

It's not about the Environment, it's about the control

 

[sk47]

The EV move and other progressive measures are not designed to save the planet. They are designed to enforce control over personal choices.

The currency will be gone sooner than later as the covid stuff opened the door to both sides to spend money like water over a dam

its all about control.

it's about the control

Hello; There is a book I read last year. The title is "OUR DOGS DID NOT BARK". Those who have hit upon the control agenda might get some benefit from a read.

While I do question the wisdom of such measures, banning ICE cars, I do not doubt those who have the power will put into place ways to stop the various ways we might try to get around their agenda. My guess in some of us will try to have an ICE engine and just keep it on the road.

There is one thing I have wondered about for some time. A number of people replace the engines in cars and trucks with crate engines. It was my understanding there are laws in place which can be used to require that a particular car be equipped with the factory emissions it can with at the time of manufacture. I have often figured to use a car made before 1968 if I were ever to rebuild a car and change the engine. It was after 1968 when emission controls were used.
That a modern "crate" engine will likely run cleaner than some factory engines likely will not matter to those in power.

As technology improved over time people were willing and eager to move on to new stuff. No one had to force the ICE cars and trucks onto us. As the vehicles became more practical and affordable the demand for them was in place. This from the top sort of requirement that we use electric cars is not the same thing.
If the technology is indeed superior then enough people will want to have a battery run car so these type cars/trucks will make it on their own. There will not need to be "force" used to make us accept them.
I can get in my car or truck and set out across country. I will have to stop every so often to top up my fuel which can take ten minutes or so, then be on my way. I can repeat this for as long as I have the endurance and money to pay. I could do this sort of thing in a hybrid but not in a battery car.
There is an eight to ten year or so additional penalty in place with the hybrids and pure electric vehicles. That being the need to replace a big battery pack. Not sure how much these battery packs cost to replace now but they were thousands of dollars ten years ago. Can you picture having a ten year old car which needs such an expensive part?

Note - I started a thread similar to this one today but will defer to this one being the go to thread. There has been a good post in that thread which is good. I will attempt to copy it into this thread.

 

[sk47]

The logistics and economics don't work. The bulk of emissions in the transportation sector are from shipping, not personal vehicles. The grids can't handle it, the roads can't handle it, and people just can't afford new cars just because the government waves their magic wand. The average car in America is over a decade old. All this will do is increase the age of the ICE cars on the road. An increase in older, less efficient cars will have the opposite effect on the environment. If the ban goes in effect in 2035, the earliest I see widespread adoption is 2050. Sure hope the infrastructure has been built out by then.

Then, even assuming a 100% conversion rate, we've only dealt with PART of the transportation GHG emissions. What about the other 86% of the pie? Source: EPA

Targeting the personal transportation subset of that 14% is purely political. They are not doing anything to address the real issues. Unless these policies go hand-in-hand with major rollout of renewables, and drastic changes to our global economy, it's pointless. Y'all need to stop buying everything you see on Amazon, and purchase more durable goods as locally as possible if we want to see real change. Buying cheap crap pumped out of factories in China, then shipped halfway across the world on diesel ships/trains/trucks is what's really doing the damage.

Hello; this is the post. It is worth a read.

 

[nrc]

Pretty sure it'll be all states at some point.

The sun will also go out at some point. Probably before that.

For every State to act on this it would have to be a popular enough position that the Federal government will preempt the action anyway.

California will ban personal transportation before North Dakota bans new ICE vehicles.

 

[sk47]

Hello; I see there are doubts such a ban on ICE will ever be put into force. That some circumstance or other will step in to prevent this from happening. I do not have a crystal ball so cannot say for sure one way or another.
My take is the fact three states have already made such an announcement is significant. The intent is clear even if the ability to follow thru may seem questionable. A significant enough portion of the population has decided fossil fuels cause ________ ( environmental woes, global warming, pollution, health issues. You fill in the blank.)

I am sure there are other analogies but will use tobacco. An easy example is what I think of as a "sin tax". The authorities have found a way to put increased taxes onto some consumer items because of the bad context of that item. Started out for tobacco with opinions about the health problems associated with tobacco. Later a warning on packages. Later, at first, some restrictions on where you can smoke, then even more restrictions. Insurance companies can charge a smoker more. I am sure I have missed some things.
Now I do agree that tobacco is a bad thing. I did smoke for over ten years. Quit back in 1979. I do get that tobacco should not be used by people. It causes lots of health issues and yields little, if anything, to society. Yet I do not think any state has planned an outright ban on tobacco products.

I also get the argument that vehicles now have an alternative means of propulsion. So ICE is not necessary any more, or will not be by 2035. My guess is they have missed a few practical things in their zeal, but such is the topic for a different post.

I think of the incandescent light bulbs and the newer energy saving types. Had a friend who was livid about the mandates restricting the sale of the older style bulbs. I tried to convince him the new compact fluorescents lights (CFL) were a good thing. I was using them. His point was about being forced to do something he had not chosen for himself.
It took a while, but I did eventually see his point. I still use energy saving bulbs. In fact have moved to LED lights. Freedom of choice is a point, I suppose, is worth consideration. I consider such anyway.

It is not like battery vehicles will be free of health and environmental issues of their own. The bigger one to me is the environmental cost of mining some of the rare minerals such as lithium, for one.
Enough from me for now.

 

[Stage_3]

California will ban personal transportation before North Dakota bans new ICE vehicles.

Exactly.
Now you're getting it. "At some point" is what I wrote.

 

[sk47]

Exactly.
Now you're getting it. "At some point" is what I wrote.

Hello; I have not written much about the activities of my youth. Back almost 50 years ago there were a number of issues which were lumped under the "some day it will happen" banner. Well so many have happened because some day does show up. Those of you who are still young likely think 14 years is along time. It will not be always.

Let me try to make a point again. That the notion is already part of an agenda is a big deal. That those who push the agenda may not have thought it out well is not an argument against the agenda. If they can secure the power and authority their agenda will happen regardless of how wise or stupid it may be.
The way it has worked before with only California has been they wind up calling the shots. Some of the stuff now on all cars sold in the USA started out being mandated in California. Car companies often would change an entire line to suit the requirements of California.

In a few small cases some small item would be a California only part with the rest of the cars/trucks having different parts. Such would not be the case with a total ban on the ICE. Too many vehicles sold in California alone to be ignored. Now there are two additional states in the mix.

I do not know about the rest of you, but there are already too many things on new cars I do not want. I have little to no choice tho, if I wish to buy one. The car business is changed from the time of my youth.

 

[IceAge]

So here’s a crazy shit idea someone figures out a combustion energy source that replaces the Carbon Foot print effect but keeps the Ice Engine in service

 

[19GT350R]

Hello; this is the post. It is worth a read.

I especially agree with your comment regarding Amazon. All we’re doing by propping up Amazon is ultimately signing our own death warrant in giving China more power over our (once great) Republic. It’s sad to see so many post a link to Amazon when in the want to buy something online. Yeah, Prime shipping is convenient but at what cost? Same is true of Google, Facebook, Twitter, etc. These are not organizations friendly to the patriotic American.

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