Tires for ocassional track use - MPSS vs MPS4S vs ??

[mnm4ever]

I got my new wheels and now I am trying to decide on tires. I have been doing a crazy amount of research and calculations to choose the tires I want based on performance and also what will fit AND look right to me with the sidewall height and wheel gap. I track the car maybe 1-3 times a year, so really not a lot, but the track is 2.5 hrs from home, so I need to drive there and back, no trailer here. My car is not daily driven, its just for fun, but not JUST for track, I use it for street use most of the time, i just don't commute in it. I live in Florida, I don't worry about cold weather but we have horrendous rain, so rain performance is paramount, both on the street and on the track. The only times this car has scared me is during rainstorms. Currently on the OEM rims and OEM P-Zeros, which I do not actually hate, I have used them for track days and they were fine I guess. Nothing to compare them to really.

I have a 2015 GT/PP, OEM suspension, with no plans to lower it. The wheels are 19x10/19x11.

Pilot Super Sport - 275/35 front, 305/35 rear - This I think would be the perfect sizes, and this is the only tire that comes in these sizes out of my short list. From what I have researched, these are great tires on the street, for some track days, and great in the rain.

Pilot Sport 4S - 275/35 front, 295/35 rear - The successor to the Super Sports, and everyone seems to love them, they get great reviews. But I have read several reviews on Tire Rack that this tire isn't great for HPDE track use, that it will chunk when driven hard and hot. Never heard this complaint with the MPSS. I don't want to spend $1400 on tires and then destroy them with a single track day. And the 295 is slightly smaller for the rears.

Continental ExtremeContact Sport - 275/35 f, 295/35 r - a little cheaper than the Pilots, also get good reviews but seem to not last as long as the Pilots, especially the performance drop off as they age. They also don't have the 305 tire, and they apparently were replaced by the SportContact6, which costs more and has mixed reviews for track use.

I am leaning to the Super Sports, because no one really has anything bad to say about them and they have the right sizes. But since the PS4S is supposed to be better that the SS, I am torn. I see a lot of ppl here buying the ECS so I figured I could get some good opinions on those with our relatively heavy Mustangs too. I am open to other ideas, but I have this mondo spreadsheet with all of the tire options that would remotely fit our cars, and because I want the sidewall ratio to be close to the stock look, I had to eliminate a lot of options. I was all set to go for the Indy 500s but they just dont offer the size I want for the rear, and I hear the performance in heavy rain just isnt close to the Pilots. I will probably get a set of them to mount on the stock rims though.

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[moffetts]

I would be inclined to go for the MPSSes given the wheels you’re running. You probably will not notice a difference between the MPSS and the PS4S and the 305 will look better on that wheel, in my opinion. I can’t speak to the longevity of the PS4S on track, but I have cooked some MPSSes in my day. I wouldn’t worry about it either way. Michelin makes a quality tire.

 

[Flyhalf]

Between the 3 4S
A new great tire is Goodyear supercar 3. Really fast a good longevity.
My advice (my car is 95%) track is :
If you track the car 3 or more times a year buy an extra set of wheels. For less then a 1000$ u get good wheels and you put dedicated tires. U drive to the track with your street ones.
Bring with you 4 wheels for the track with more aggressive compound.
Safe money at the long run and ypu go faster.
You can fit easily 3 tires on the rear seat and one in the trunk. Ome jack one airimpactor. And good to go

 

[NightmareMoon]

MPSS was chunking itself away under heavy cars long before the MP4S released. I’ve seen chunked MPSS under a very heavy Mercedes (with not enough camber) at the track first hand.

4S is fantastic in the rain, but if you don’t have much camber and overdrive them at the track, yeah they could chunk from abuse. Its not unique to Michelin tires.

Getting some heat cycles into them with street miles may help them survive. We dont seem to get as many reports of tires with moderate use suddenly disintegrating. I feel they’re higher risk when new, soft, and compliant. That might be due to how older worn tires just don’t generate as much at the track as full treadblocks on new sticky tires do.

on a car with adequate track camber I don’t think it should be a problem, but its a little hard to predict. If they don’t chunk its an ideal situation. I’ve tracked my 4s tires a little and no issues but I’m not stock suspension.

other tires to consider

 

[Dana Pants]

I find PS4S to be REALLY frustrating to drive hard. I swear I can feel the different compounds touching the ground for wide vs sharp turns. It also seems that tire pressure can really affect what compound is touching the ground.

while I haven’t driven the Continentals on a Mustang, I’ve driven them quite a bit at autocross in my Wife’s Jetta Sportwagen and find every run enjoyable. Much lower sensitivity to pressure.

 

[mnm4ever]

I find PS4S to be REALLY frustrating to drive hard. I swear I can feel the different compounds touching the ground for wide vs sharp turns. It also seems that tire pressure can really affect what compound is touching the ground.

while I haven’t driven the Continentals on a Mustang, I’ve driven them quite a bit at autocross in my Wife’s Jetta Sportwagen and find every run enjoyable. Much lower sensitivity to pressure.

Thanks. Ive done more autocross than HPDE, but in different cars... a GTI and MR2 Spyder. I love my RE11s on the Spyder, and from what I have read, the ECS is very similar to the Potenzas, very good for autox and street driving, but not terrific when used on track days, the heat affects them more, and the performance in the rain isn't as good as either of the Pilots.

 

[Dana Pants]

Thanks. Ive done more autocross than HPDE, but in different cars... a GTI and MR2 Spyder. I love my RE11s on the Spyder, and from what I have read, the ECS is very similar to the Potenzas, very good for autox and street driving, but not terrific when used on track days, the heat affects them more, and the performance in the rain isn't as good as either of the Pilots.

ECS and PS4S are both very good autocross rain tires used by the freaks that have “dry” and “wet” autocross street tires.

 

[AlbertD]

I've had 2 sets of 4s and 1 set of continentals both out on track when I was early on in my HPDE journey. For a beginner and with some street miles both the 4s and Contis did great. Communicative, decent grip, and with proper camber they lasted a good amount of track days and street miles. By the time I had gained some experience (on my 2nd set of 4s), I totally trashed the tires with chunking on the outer edges of the thread. Grant it, they probably didn't get enough street miles in them to "break in" before I went out on track.

If you have some experience and can drive the car fairly hard 8-9/10s, then I would honestly recommend another set of wheels for the track (or something in the 200TW) category. I ran RS4s on track and street and they took all the abuse I could throw at them.

 

[mnm4ever]

MPSS was chunking itself away under heavy cars long before the MP4S released. I’ve seen chunked MPSS under a very heavy Mercedes (with not enough camber) at the track first hand.

4S is fantastic in the rain, but if you don’t have much camber and overdrive them at the track, yeah they could chunk from abuse. Its not unique to Michelin tires.

Getting some heat cycles into them with street miles may help them survive. We dont seem to get as many reports of tires with moderate use suddenly disintegrating. I feel they’re higher risk when new, soft, and compliant. That might be due to how older worn tires just don’t generate as much at the track as full treadblocks on new sticky tires do.

on a car with adequate track camber I don’t think it should be a problem, but its a little hard to predict. If they don’t chunk its an ideal situation. I’ve tracked my 4s tires a little and no issues but I’m not stock suspension.

other tires to consider

I am not averse to making some modifications like camber or alignment settings to my car for better track performance, I just don't really want to lower the car. I really feel comfortable with the car at the track as it is, and I am nowhere near a good enough driver to think I am out-driving the car now. I am probably only at 7/10ths of its capabilities even stock!

But I needed tires and I wanted wheels, so I decided this was the time to make the investment. If there are some recommended changes to the suspension settings to help with the tire life and not make it too darty on the street, I am open to them.

 

[Dana Pants]

I am not averse to making some modifications like camber or alignment settings to my car for better track performance, I just don't really want to lower the car. I really feel comfortable with the car at the track as it is, and I am nowhere near a good enough driver to think I am out-driving the car now. I am probably only at 7/10ths of its capabilities even stock!

But I needed tires and I wanted wheels, so I decided this was the time to make the investment. If there are some recommended changes to the suspension settings to help with the tire life and not make it too darty on the street, I am open to them.

Wider front wheels will definitely help with tire life. 19x10 or more and able to rotate. No matter what, At least -2 deg front camber. More (3+) would be better. The goal is to set camber at whatever the street miles and track miles do to kill the whole tire at the same time.

 

[mnm4ever]

Between the 3 4S
A new great tire is Goodyear supercar 3. Really fast a good longevity.
My advice (my car is 95%) track is :
If you track the car 3 or more times a year buy an extra set of wheels. For less then a 1000$ u get good wheels and you put dedicated tires. U drive to the track with your street ones.
Bring with you 4 wheels for the track with more aggressive compound.
Safe money at the long run and ypu go faster.
You can fit easily 3 tires on the rear seat and one in the trunk. Ome jack one airimpactor. And good to go

Thank you for this perspective. I have considered getting another set of wheels for track use. I had big plans to have dedicated track tires for the Mustang, autocross tires for the MR2, but I found I just wasn't going often enough to justify the expense.I haven't gone to a track day in over a year now, and while I anticipate doing more of them, I just don't know if that is going to be in the cards. I have one track day that will definitely happen because it was pre-paid before COVID19. And I just spent $1600 on an AC repair for the Mustang, $1400 for the wheels, another $1300 or so for tires now... its a lot of big checks to write for a car with barely 20k miles. As I said in another comment, I don't think I have raised my track driving skills to the point where I would really out-drive a tire like the MPSS. I had considered buying some cheaper tires for the street, but the sizes I want (for looks, admittedly!) just aren't offered in other tires, and the savings isn't enough to really justify. These sizes aren't offered in most track tires too.

I have considered is putting dedicated track tires on the OEM rims. There are a lot more options available to fit those rims, plus I don't need to worry so much about the look... though with a 9"/9.5" wheel, I would have to go with skinnier tires. I could get the Supercar 3's in the OEM 255/40-275/40 sizes, or I could probable do Proxes R888R in 265/40 all around.Or just suck it up and get another set of wheels for track use, to get more tire, but then I have to store more wheels than I really have room for!

One thing though... "You can fit easily 3 tires on the rear seat and one in the trunk"... how? I loved the pics you attached, I would like to see one of the back seat with 3 tires in it? And maybe a video of you getting it back there? I can barely get paper towel packages into the back seat! Those Recaros dont tilt forward very far and take up a lot of room when they tilt back into position.

 

[Dana Pants]

... "You can fit easily 3 tires on the rear seat and one in the trunk"... how? I loved the pics you attached, I would like to see one of the back seat with 3 tires in it? And maybe a video of you getting it back there? I can barely get paper towel packages into the back seat! Those Recaros dont tilt forward very far and take up a lot of room when they tilt back into position.

spare tire well, 2 in trunk, 1 in back seat works.

But I do this because it’s less backbreaking and frees the interior for normal things like folding chairs and coolers.

If you use OEM wheels, put the same 275 width tire on all 4 corners so you can rotate and/or flip at least once.

 

[mnm4ever]

spare tire well, 2 in trunk, 1 in back seat works.

But I do this because it’s less backbreaking and frees the interior for normal things like folding chairs and coolers.

If you use OEM wheels, put the same 275 width tire on all 4 corners so you can rotate and/or flip at least once.

Yea now that I like, what a great idea! I have one of those cargo carriers too, an aluminum one I got for the Jeep. I never thought about using it with the Mustang. Much better than putting dirty tires inside my OCD-level clean car.

Out of curiosity, do you remove the trailer hitch from the car for track use, or just leave it? They can be a bit heavy.

 

[Dana Pants]

Yea now that I like, what a great idea! I have one of those cargo carriers too, an aluminum one I got for the Jeep. I never thought about using it with the Mustang. Much better than putting dirty tires inside my OCD-level clean car.

Out of curiosity, do you remove the trailer hitch from the car for track use, or just leave it? They can be a bit heavy.

the available trailer hitches for this car are an extremely permanent installation. And yes it is a bit heavy.

 

[mnm4ever]

the available trailer hitches for this car are an extremely permanent installation. And yes it is a bit heavy.

Seems like it would also easily exceed the rated tongue weight capacity of the hitch.

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