Timing and tuning (aluminator gen 3 moter)

[robmustang201528]

What makes you think the RPG engine unsleeved is any stronger than an aluminator. If you put head studs on the aluminator before install I would put my money on the aluminator

Stronger rods in the RPG motor. Manley Tuff Rods Instead of the standard Manley rods that come in the aluminator. I'm not sure if the pistons and main bearings are better then the aluminator. I'm assuming the main bearings in the aluminator are stronger then the stock gen3???

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[robmustang201528]

If you look at the video of the 4 stages of combustion, you'll see how timing and tuning works. As fuel and oxygen enter the combustion chamber, its ignited by the spark-plug, which forces the piston back down in the engine, thus causing torque and power of the engine.

The term degree is basically where the connecting rod is in it's rotation, and where the piston is in the chamber.

If timing is too far advance, it's where you'll have knock. Knock is when the fuel and air is ignited by the spark-plug, but the piston is too far down in the cylinder block ( on its way up ). So theres force exerted down on the piston, as it's trying to make it way up the cylinder.

On boosted application, there's more air in the cylinder, which needs more fuel and all this coming in with more velocity/speed. With that introduction of all this, the timing needs to be adjusted so that the fuel and air will get burned accordingly.

The camshaft determines when the intake/exhaust valves open and close to let the air & fuel in and out of the combustion chamber. (When you build a motor, the heads, camshafts & valvetrain are the most important factors that need to be thoroughly thought out!)

You can think of it like this: Camshaft = Brains, Heads = lungs, Crankshaft = Heart and
Fuel = food

Hope that made sense. Click on the link that explains combustion below.
https://kids.britannica.com/kids/article/internal-combustion-engine/399511

Thanks man

 

[engineermike]

Rob, to the original question, timing is just one aspect of tuning. A good tuner will modify the torque model, spark timing tables, and maybe even cam timing to optimize the combination. This is actually a big subject but basically to nail a tune would take months to do it "right" but you can get is "close enough" in much less time.

Or are you asking what you'll need to do with timing once the compression is lower?

 

[Jackson1320]

Stronger rods in the RPG motor. Manley Tuff Rods Instead of the standard Manley rods that come in the aluminator. I'm not sure if the pistons and main bearings are better then the aluminator. I'm assuming the main bearings in the aluminator are stronger then the stock gen3???

The rods are not going to make a difference because the block is going to fail before the rods. Rods are only going to matter if you can make enough power for standard Manley rods to fail. The aluminator has Mahle pistons and stock gen3 bearings. All will hold up to more than the unsleeved block

 

[Jackson1320]

Rob, to the original question, timing is just one aspect of tuning. A good tuner will modify the torque model, spark timing tables, and maybe even cam timing to optimize the combination. This is actually a big subject but basically to nail a tune would take months to do it "right" but you can get is "close enough" in much less time.

Or are you asking what you'll need to do with timing once the compression is lower?

I wish I could understand the speed density tables

 

[engineermike]

I wish I could understand the speed density tables

You remember how the old speed-density computers would measure manifold pressure and use it to calculate air flow and, thus, fuel demand? This one does the exactly the opposite. It uses airflow to calculate manifold pressure, then uses the manifold pressure and air flow demand to determine throttle blade opening. You know the vacuum/boost gauges that display inferred data? The speed-density model is where it comes from.

 

[Jackson1320]

If you look at the video of the 4 stages of combustion, you'll see how timing and tuning works. As fuel and oxygen enter the combustion chamber, its ignited by the spark-plug, which forces the piston back down in the engine, thus causing torque and power of the engine.

The term degree is basically where the connecting rod is in it's rotation, and where the piston is in the chamber.

If timing is too far advance, it's where you'll have knock. Knock is when the fuel and air is ignited by the spark-plug, but the piston is too far down in the cylinder block ( on its way up ). So theres force exerted down on the piston, as it's trying to make it way up the cylinder.

On boosted application, there's more air in the cylinder, which needs more fuel and all this coming in with more velocity/speed. With that introduction of all this, the timing needs to be adjusted so that the fuel and air will get burned accordingly.

The camshaft determines when the intake/exhaust valves open and close to let the air & fuel in and out of the combustion chamber. (When you build a motor, the heads, camshafts & valvetrain are the most important factors that need to be thoroughly thought out!)

You can think of it like this: Camshaft = Brains, Heads = lungs, Crankshaft = Heart and
Fuel = food

Hope that made sense. Click on the link that explains combustion below.
https://kids.britannica.com/kids/article/internal-combustion-engine/399511

That’s not really knock. That is just to much advance which I guess is a kind of knock. but true knock in spark ignition internal combustion engines occurs when combustion of some of the air/fuel mixture in the cylinder does not result from propagation of the flame front ignited by the spark plug, but one or more pockets of air/fuel mixture explode outside the envelope of the normal combustion.

 

[Jackson1320]

You remember how the old speed-density computers would measure manifold pressure and use it to calculate air flow and, thus, fuel demand? This one does the exactly the opposite. It uses airflow to calculate manifold pressure, then uses the manifold pressure and air flow demand to determine throttle blade opening. You know the vacuum/boost gauges that display inferred data? The speed-density model is where it comes from.

That actually explains a lot. Thank you

 

[robmustang201528]

Thanks man

Stronger rods in the RPG motor. Manley Tuff Rods Instead of the standard Manley rods that come in the aluminator. I'm not sure if the pistons and main bearings are better then the aluminator. I'm assuming the main bearings in the aluminator are stronger then the stock gen3???

This is where I get confused. It says the standard manly rods( what the aluminator has) can handle 700 at the crank??.

 

[robmustang201528]

They say the aluminator block( basically the gen3 block) can handle 1200hp..key word block. Doesn’t say anything about the rods and pistions

 

[Jackson1320]

This is where I get confused. It says the standard manly rods( what the aluminator has) can handle 700 at the crank??.

If they could only handle 700hp you would be better off with stock rods

 

[Jackson1320]

Other company’s say 1000+ for the standard Manley. Hp is not a good way to measure rods

 

[robmustang201528]

Other company’s say 1000+ for the standard Manley

Shit don't make sense lol. So much conflicting information. This is off Manley website. Exactly... if they can only handle 700hp 750 at the CRANK!!. I'm better off with the stock rods lol

 

[engineermike]

I bet if you ask Ford what the coyote rods can handle they would say 480.

 

[MKL_DS]

I bet if you ask Ford what the coyote rods can handle they would say 480.

At no more than 7500 RPM...

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