Thoughts about E85 eventually going away?

[LSchicago]

I understand that on a performance car appropriately tuned. But I'd say that's less than 5%, maybe less than 1% of people buying E85. They were buying it because they're bad at math and thought they saved on fuel because of the lower per-gallon price. If it's 9 cents *more* than regular, they won't buy it at all.

And to the original post, I'd say, if the price continues down that road, that the number of pumps with E85 will only decline, unfortunately. There's really no good reason for it to be more expensive. Brazil makes their ethanol from leftover stems and basically garbage parts of sugar cane, with zero impact on food supplies. Basically free base material to create fuel. Their vehicles will run on up to 100% ethanol, not just 85%. But if the price stays higher than gasoline, expect E85 to go away fairly quickly I'm sorry to say. Then for the high-boost guys, it's back to using octane booster.

It's a lot higher percentage than that buying E85 in my area. I see lots of other Modified/boosted cars buying.

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[ZeroTX]

Also, America was sold a bill of goods that ethanol was stealing food supply.

A) untrue... There are hundreds of millions of dormant farm acres in the USA who have shut down due to government subsidies and other reasons. There's no shortage of places to grow corn, even if that were necessary.

B) It's not necessary to use corn to make ethanol. The best source material for ethanol is SUGAR CANE, as exemplified by Brazil (one of the largest nations in the world) who has been using ethanol on a large scale in automobiles since 1976 and has increased that percentage as the decades have gone by. Technology has existed for at least a decade that allows ethanol to be made from basically the leftover stems and garbage parts of sugar cane that aren't used for food. That means you can use them for food AND fuel (although arguably, the world can live without sugar...).

 

[ice445]

Also, America was sold a bill of goods that ethanol was stealing food supply.

A) untrue... There are hundreds of millions of dormant farm acres in the USA who have shut down due to government subsidies and other reasons. There's no shortage of places to grow corn, even if that were necessary.

B) It's not necessary to use corn to make ethanol. The best source material for ethanol is SUGAR CANE, as exemplified by Brazil (one of the largest nations in the world) who has been using ethanol on a large scale in automobiles since 1976 and has increased that percentage as the decades have gone by. Technology has existed for at least a decade that allows ethanol to be made from basically the leftover stems and garbage parts of sugar cane that aren't used for food. That means you can use them for food AND fuel (although arguably, the world can live without sugar...).

The problem is that soil degradation is becoming an issue on the horizon. The more acres you have in constant production, the more this process accelerates. Another factor is the logistics of ethanol. You have to use petroleum derived enriched fertilizers to get the crazy yields that we do, and on top of that you use diesel farm machinery, then transport the e85 on trucks burning diesel. Thus the environmental benefits are minor at best.

It is a great performance fuel though.

 

[ZeroTX]

The problem is that soil degradation is becoming an issue on the horizon.

Not sure how soil that hasn't been farmed in several decades could be "degrading." There are thousands of acres of old sugar cane land starting about a mile from my house. They stopped production there about 30 years ago, so the land is literally just a hay field now. They didn't stop due to soil degradation, they just moved to a cheaper area farther from the city.

 

[gone_n_60]

fwiw from Gasbuddy today, Midgrade is $4.32 per gal and E85 running $3.81 per gal. So about .51 cent diff. If you're a V8 running premium it's better price spread.

 

[ZeroTX]

fwiw from Gasbuddy today, Midgrade is $4.32 per gal and E85 running $3.81 per gal. So about .51 cent diff. If you're a V8 running premium it's better price spread.

I was only referring to one experience at an Exxon station near my work.... In the past, E85 there was a lot cheaper than regular 87, so this shocked me a bit.

 

[LSchicago]

I was only referring to one experience at an Exxon station near my work.... In the past, E85 there was a lot cheaper than regular 87, so this shocked me a bit.

Corn and Ethanol is really high this year, so E85 is higher than normal in most places.

 

[rhexis]

Corn and Ethanol is really high this year, so E85 is higher than normal in most places.

yep just last summer i was paying 2.65 for it and two week ago i went to fill the car and my 4 five gallon tanks and it was 4.10.

 

[TheAverageJoe93]

Its happening in the Midwest, too. EPA agenda, IMO Even tho it amitts alot less co2 than nasty pump gas

It emits less from the tailpipe, maybe. However, the process of tilling soil and releasing CO2 from the ground negates any CO2 reduction benefit from using Ethanol.
The whole “it’s better for the environment” sales pitch has been debunked numerous times.

 

[Biggus Dickus]

Over the last 10 years, hundreds of E85 pumps have been removed/closed. In the upper North East, we literally have 4 locations within a 4 state area. Since the Flex fuel vehicle fad died off about 5-8 years ago, I myself can't see stations keeping it on hand unless it's just in the Midwest/South, and still profitable enough to the performance/race crowd.

Now with the ridiculous EV narrative being shoved in our faces, I'm concerned about the future of Ethanol fuels. Not heavily concerned, but what are YOUR thoughts?

In southern calif, and calif in general, more E85 pumps are popping up all the time. And, our E85 is >85% ethanol year round. Our supply is very reliable. It is very popular and growing in popularity, and there are many flex-fuel car owners who take advantage of it. My Mustang runs a dedicated AED E85 race tune all year round. As for the future, who knows? I'm enjoying it while I can.

That said, there is no ridiculous EV narrative being pushed in my face and I am very happy that I also have this in the garage in these trying times

 

[The Demon]

I think in certain states it made sense like in California. Other midwest, very cold states not so much. In California E85 is a real E85 and its literally half the cost of 91 octane here in California as we are approaching darn near $6.49 and I can get E85 at $3.19 per gallon. E85 isn't taxed like regular gasoline here in California. Thats why it has to be a true E85, if the ethanol content drops below E85 it gets taxed like regular gasoline. For me I use it to bump up my octane a few points. I run 2 gallons of E85, 1.5 gallons of 101 VP racing to California 91 and that gets me to 94 octane.

Where are you getting the VP 101? I’ve been on their website and it shows where the stations are but I can never find anything over normal 91. Maybe I’m just not looking correctly.

 

[Cordero1]

That would suck for me as an Ethanol cook. Our plant runs at a little over %100, which does not make sense to me but thats what they tell us. We run at %107. We have 3 local pumps & are about to start making alcohol for human consumption. So that should keep us running regardless of ethanol pumps. Now Im just a pee on Ethanol cook, so I dont know much about logistics or anything past making it.

 

[Nuked]

It emits less from the tailpipe, maybe. However, the process of tilling soil and releasing CO2 from the ground negates any CO2 reduction benefit from using Ethanol.
The whole “it’s better for the environment” sales pitch has been debunked numerous times.

Kind of like EV's with zero emissions but no one wants to admit the electric used to charge them comes from mostly coal fired power plants. There are tradeoffs to everything and the whole zero emissions argument is decades away from being realistic.

 

[FreePenguin]

I dont know if I posted in this thread, but we used to have ethanol free gas all around me, 87/91 and 93 and also had E85 abundantly.

Last 2-3 years, everything been getting stripped, cant even find ethanol free gas anymore, I used it for my mowers, but yeah. the stations that carried it was forced to remove it or they weren't supplied it anymore.

e85 same thing. my neighbor uses e85 in his bmw, gnarly little car and we just had a chat saying he lost another gas station and hes driving a bit out now for gas.

 

[KingKona]

...I am very happy that I also have this in the garage in these trying times....

Yeah.... these trying times. Looks rough for ya. Destitute.

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