Mustang or M240i

[wjones14]

Subsequently, as of today you can no longer make those direct buying comparisons, because the Mustang now has Independent Rear Suspension. And now even has an optional IRS w/magneride... which BMW does not have. Essentially there is zero comparison to how your older Mustang drove and how the current 2018 Mustangs drive. They are that different... you reference point is outdated, and nearly pointless. (That is what I was pointing out to you.)

Okay, there's a misunderstanding here. I never compared my '05 Mustang to the BMW. I compared the M235i and a S550 Mustang GTPP by test drives. That's it. On that day, after back to back test drives, I liked the BMW better. There's nothing you need to point out to me. And I realize you don't consider my opinion to be valid. No worries, you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

Now that I think about it, didn't you used to post on the 2 Series forum? Have not seen you there lately, but I seem to remember a lot of negative posts from you back when I was first thinking about buying the M235i. Some predictions you made in 2014, such as the M235i wouldn't last more than a year, but instead would be renamed to just 235i... do you remember that?

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[w3rkn]

Okay, there's a misunderstanding here. I never compared my '05 Mustang to the BMW. I compared the M235i and a S550 Mustang GTPP by test drives. That's it. On that day, after back to back test drives, I liked the BMW better. There's nothing you need to point out to me. And I realize you don't consider my opinion to be valid. No worries, you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

Now that I think about it, didn't you used to post on the 2 Series forum? Have not seen you there lately, but I seem to remember a lot of negative posts from you back when I was first thinking about buying the M235i. Some predictions you made in 2014, such as the M235i wouldn't last more than a year, but instead would be renamed to just 235i... do you remember that?

Again, almost anyone would like the "feel" of the lighter, smaller BMW. Nobody is knocking you for it.

I am saying, that TODAY.... if you cross shop (& PRICE) a Mustang and a BMW 2-series, that YOUR reasons & comparison shopping doesn't matter anymore.


And Yes, I was a member of BMW forums since the dawn of the internet and yes I was banned for starting a S550 vs M235i thread, in which the moderators didn't like, because the Mustang put up too much fight for the snowflakes over at bimmerposts. (The PM they sent me, was full of butthurt as they were "asking" me to lighten up on the comparisons. I was making too valid of an argument for their tastes)

I had just bought my 3rd BMW as a hold-over and had my hat in the ring for an M2 (dealer allotment #2) and was seeking a full-on weekend car. But unfortunately the M2 came with the exact same engine (EXACT) as the one in my (rare) car and I already had the M-diff on my car. So there was no real excitement for the bigger, heavier M235i, or the equally same M2.

My predictions for the M235i were correct. And that the M235i no longer had ADM and was discounted within 8 months (my dealer kept calling me), as the M235i was short lived and moved off the lots, as the M240i took over. But, with the size and weight of the 240i/M2 there was no justification for solely seeking German small cars, if they weighed that much.

Again, the M240i/M2 was not that impressive, over my 4 year old BMW, it just had more nannies. And after driving the GT350 and M2, I felt they were evenly matched cars but the GT350 had much more presence and a much better driver experience attached to it. (The Ford had a much better ride.)

I eventually put in for a GT350 but couldn't get allotted, so I kept my BMW for another year. But once I heard magneride was coming as an option, I sold my BMW... and have been waiting ever since.



Coincidentally, I know MANY people from bimmerposts who joined here, and many of those people now drive S550s. As again, there really is no longer a reason to buy a German cars, when an American Mustang has independent suspension and beats BMW on the road & at the track.

You will see shortly... coming from your M235i to a 2018 Mustang GT.
:ford:

 

[wildcatgoal]

Well, except that I've never been in a German car (even a base model BMW 120d) that clunks and clanks when you change gears or press the clutch in. But anwho...

 

[aspensilver]

Again, almost anyone would like the "feel" of the lighter, smaller BMW. Nobody is knocking you for it.

I am saying, that TODAY.... if you cross shop (& PRICE) a Mustang and a BMW 2-series, that YOUR reasons & comparison shopping doesn't matter anymore.


And Yes, I was a member of BMW forums since the dawn of the internet and yes I was banned for starting a S550 vs M235i thread, in which the moderators didn't like, because the Mustang put up too much fight for the snowflakes over at bimmerposts. (The PM they sent me, was full of butthurt as they were "asking" me to lighten up on the comparisons. I was making too valid of an argument for their tastes)

You have a way of making your point in an argumentative, non-friendly way. I remember those M235I vs. S550 threads because I was part of them and for the most part agreed with what you said just not how you said it. Things can be conducted as friends, just assume everyone is a buddy. :cheers:

Coincidentally, I know MANY people from bimmerposts who joined here, and many of those people now drive S550s. As again, there really is no longer a reason to buy a German cars, when an American Mustang has independent suspension and beats BMW on the road & at the track.

You will see shortly... coming from your M235i to a 2018 Mustang GT.
:ford:

Disagree that there is no reason. Different cars have different feel that's why i currently have 3 cars from 3 different brands. I wouldn't own more than one american car personally. Unfortunately BMW has been going south for awhile steering feel wise, that's something they've been doing before the Mustang went IRS.

But the S550, you are right, did bring a ton of Euro and Asian car over with its looks, modern suspension and NA V8.

 

[Nomadic]

My Dad (81yrs old) traded in his 2011 GTI for a '16 M235i auto w/1600 mi on it. Paid $37K + tax,license. A steal in my opinion.

He likes it but he doesn't love it. He says shifting it in manual mode it's a beast. Otherwise the steering feel is sort of numb, handling is ok but not great. Overall a very nice car. But it doesn't have the attitude, V8 rumble of the GT. Both are good, just depends what you want and want to spend as the M240i new is pricey.

 

[wjones14]

My Dad (81yrs old) traded in his 2011 GTI for a '16 M235i auto w/1600 mi on it. Paid $37K + tax,license. A steal in my opinion.

He likes it but he doesn't love it. He says shifting it in manual mode it's a beast. Otherwise the steering feel is sort of numb, handling is ok but not great. Overall a very nice car. But it doesn't have the attitude, V8 rumble of the GT. Both are good, just depends what you want and want to spend as the M240i new is pricey.

That is really cool that your 81 year old dad is still driving performance cars! And I agree with his evaluation 100% - the attitude and V8 rumble are all that's missing, but unfortunately, those are two big factors. :(

The M235i/240i does have a lot going for it. To me, it's the perfect size, and the size makes it so easy to drive. It feels like you can squirm through traffic whenever you want, and no road is too narrow. And despite the cries from long-time BMW fans about the company losing their way with bloated, numb cars - the 2 Series is maybe the only model that is still mostly true to its roots.

And finally, there still is something to be said about the BMW badge and brand. I mean, when I told my family and friends that I decided to give BMW a try after driving nothing but Mustangs for the past 20+ years, they unanimously saw it as an upgrade. In the minds of the general public, BMW is still a premium brand, right there with Audi, Benz, Range Rover, Lexus, etc.

 

[Nomadic]

The lack of V8 rumble/attitude my Dad is fine with. He's never been a Mustang guy, always European. He a had a C32 amg, a 2002 M Coupe (remember those). He likes more refined cars and the I'm sure the M235i fits that bill for sure compared to the Mustang. I can appreciate his taste but I've always preferred my toy to be a V8 RWD Mustang or similar. He stills drives like a maniac. :eyebulge:

 

[w3rkn]

That is really cool that your 81 year old dad is still driving performance cars! And I agree with his evaluation 100% - the attitude and V8 rumble are all that's missing, but unfortunately, those are two big factors. :(

The M235i/240i does have a lot going for it. To me, it's the perfect size, and the size makes it so easy to drive. It feels like you can squirm through traffic whenever you want, and no road is too narrow. And despite the cries from long-time BMW fans about the company losing their way with bloated, numb cars - the 2 Series is maybe the only model that is still mostly true to its roots.

And finally, there still is something to be said about the BMW badge and brand. I mean, when I told my family and friends that I decided to give BMW a try after driving nothing but Mustangs for the past 20+ years, they unanimously saw it as an upgrade. In the minds of the general public, BMW is still a premium brand, right there with Audi, Benz, Range Rover, Lexus, etc.

Yeah, there was something to say about BMW, when they made special cars with special engines.

Put it this way, I use to drive BMW performance cars until America got better at making performance cars that handle. Side by side there is no reason to own a BMW 2-series, over a Mustang.... unless you never owned a BMW before and you want some prestige.

BMW's M2 is a worthy car, but it is not American...



I look at it this way, Mustangs are worth owning, while BMW are only worth leasing. And do not try and modify your BMW, the headaches are not worth it. BMW's come with protective nannies (clutch delay valve) that protect BMW's fragility.

Given a choice, most people would choose the 2018 Mustang PP2, over the equally priced but anemic M240i (which doesn't even have a lsd). All you have to do is start both cars and one is already sold...

 

[wjones14]

Yeah, there was something to say about BMW, when they made special cars with special engines.

Put it this way, I use to drive BMW performance cars until America got better at making performance cars that handle. Side by side there is no reason to own a BMW 2-series, over a Mustang.... unless you never owned a BMW before and you want some prestige.

BMW's M2 is a worthy car, but it is not American...



I look at it this way, Mustangs are worth owning, while BMW are only worth leasing. And do not try and modify your BMW, the headaches are not worth it. BMW's come with protective nannies (clutch delay valve) that protect BMW's fragility.

Given a choice, most people would choose the 2018 Mustang PP2, over the equally priced but anemic M240i (which doesn't even have a lsd). All you have to do is start both cars and one is already sold...

[MENTION=7295]aspensilver[/MENTION] was spot on - there's some truth in what you say, but you deliver it in an argumentative, non-friendly way. And despite your insistence that you're not bashing my car, that's exactly what you continue to do, using words like "anemic" to describe it.

 

[Hack]

Yeah, there was something to say about BMW, when they made special cars with special engines.

Put it this way, I use to drive BMW performance cars until America got better at making performance cars that handle. Side by side there is no reason to own a BMW 2-series, over a Mustang.... unless you never owned a BMW before and you want some prestige.

BMW's M2 is a worthy car, but it is not American...



I look at it this way, Mustangs are worth owning, while BMW are only worth leasing. And do not try and modify your BMW, the headaches are not worth it. BMW's come with protective nannies (clutch delay valve) that protect BMW's fragility.

Given a choice, most people would choose the 2018 Mustang PP2, over the equally priced but anemic M240i (which doesn't even have a lsd). All you have to do is start both cars and one is already sold...

Good post and I don't think there's anything unfriendly in it.

My thoughts on the BMWs I've driven:
Look good from the outside
Most of the interior looks good
The manual transmission is a joy to use
Make good power
Don't sound good at all
Cheap switches inside that don't work well on 1 or 2 year old cars
Price is high for what you get

 

[wjones14]

Good post and I don't think there's anything unfriendly in it

Let me preface this by saying the following is not my actual thought...

What if I were to say there's no reason to buy the anemic GT350 because the equally priced ZL1 destroys it in every performance aspect?

See my point? There's some truth there, but it's also a condescending statement meant to belittle anyone who bought a GT350.

For the record I would rather have the GT350.

 

[Hack]

Let me preface this by saying the following is not my actual thought...

What if I were to say there's no reason to buy the anemic GT350 because the equally priced ZL1 destroys it in every performance aspect?

See my point? There's some truth there, but it's also a condescending statement meant to belittle anyone who bought a GT350.

For the record I would rather have the GT350.

I would say I disagree with you but you have the right to your opinion. I agree that people use violent (and sometimes disgusting) words to describe slight differences in performance to try to accentuate their point. I think destroys is a lot better way to say it than some of the other crap I've seen regularly on here.

I think it's natural for people to disagree on the forums. That's where most of the fun is - trading thoughts and ideas with others.

If I really felt the GT350 was anemic the statement would bother me a lot more than if I didn't. That might be why it bothers you so much, because you really do think the BMWs have been somewhat anemic. That is a big reason I don't drive a Porsche. The lower models are anemic and you have to spend a ton to get a Porsche with 450-550 HP.

And lastly I really don't like supercharged V8s very much. They just don't appeal to me like naturally aspirated engines do. I think a FPC engine is super cool and a pushrod V8 with a blower is a yawner. I realize other people are all about power output or torque or magazine numbers. I think sound is a really high value characteristic for me. 99% of the time our cars are on the streets and it's inappropriate or impossible to use the power, but the sound is there all the time. Bottom line is I'm super happy with my choice of a GT350 and for the most part I don't care what people say about the GT350. I know how much fun I'm having. I've driven the competition.

 

[wjones14]

I would say I disagree with you but you have the right to your opinion. I agree that people use violent (and sometimes disgusting) words to describe slight differences in performance to try to accentuate their point. I think destroys is a lot better way to say it than some of the other crap I've seen regularly on here.

I think it's natural for people to disagree on the forums. That's where most of the fun is - trading thoughts and ideas with others.

If I really felt the GT350 was anemic the statement would bother me a lot more than if I didn't. That might be why it bothers you so much, because you really do think the BMWs have been somewhat anemic.

Yeah, we're gonna disagree then.

I think when you call someone else's car anemic, you're bashing their car.

 

[Hack]

Yeah, we're gonna disagree then.

I think when you call someone else's car anemic, you're bashing their car.

OK. Some cars really are anemic though. I think of the Mazda Miata as a great example. Why couldn't they throw a slightly better engine in there? Makes no sense to me.

 

[wjones14]

OK. Some cars really are anemic though. I think of the Mazda Miata as a great example. Why couldn't they throw a slightly better engine in there? Makes no sense to me.

Fair enough, but can we keep the comment from [MENTION=7459]w3rkn[/MENTION] in context though? He's talking about the M235i/240i, not a Miata... My stock M235i has more power than my old S197 Mustang GT. I don't feel like I should even need to justify this.

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