Monitoring Engine Temp - no oil temp

[Radiation Joe]

All of you are barking up the wrong tree.

If you are concerned about failures associated with oil temperature, then the first thing you do is run Redline or an equivalent oil. The "red" zone on your gauges is set for average oil. If you have an oil that performs well at high temperatures, the red zone is less of a concern. If you are buried in the red zone, then you need to find a cooling solution. Fixating on getting values from your data logs is missing the trees for the forest.

I just read the second page of the thread. The conversation went in a good direction regarding engine electronics pulling power. Sorry for going off on a tangent.

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[SVO MkII]

All of you are barking up the wrong tree.

If you are concerned about failures associated with oil temperature, then the first thing you do is run Redline or an equivalent oil. The "red" zone on your gauges is set for average oil. If you have an oil that performs well at high temperatures, the red zone is less of a concern. If you are buried in the red zone, then you need to find a cooling solution. Fixating on getting values from your data logs is missing the trees for the forest.

Yes, I'm running synth 5w-50, of course. But the issue is that the ECU won't let you "run in the red zone". That is the problem. So even if you are running heavier oil, and have an auxiliary oil cooler installed, the ECU will start pulling power if it it THINKS the temp is too high. Again, the issue, at least for me, i.e., how do I stop the ECU from unnecessarily pulling power? Still waiting to hear back from COBB.

 

[SVO MkII]

I just read the second page of the thread. The conversation went in a good direction regarding engine electronics pulling power. Sorry for going off on a tangent.

OK. We crossed in cyberspace.

 

[Radiation Joe]

OK. We crossed in cyberspace.

We have something in common.
I definitely consider my car an SVO MkII. I bought the first SVO to arrive in Silicon Valley back in 1983. Took it to my friends BMW shop on Evelyn Ave in Sunnyvale and proceeded to learn the secrets Ford applied to that car. There were many. The front suspension and brakes were sourced from Lincoln with significantly increased travel. Single adjustable Koni struts were standard. Mustang specified lowering springs from Eibach dropped it to the bump stops. I substituted Thunderbird V8 aftermarket springs from Eibach that raised it and had a higher rate but were still too low. Recaros were standard. It had a high and low boost switch on the dash. With the crappy California premium fuel, it actually made more usable power on the low boost setting. The original car was undriveable in commuter traffic because if you lifted off part throttle in first gear the injection would shut off until idle. I believe it was Fords first attempt at port fuel injection plus emissions. Ford had a fix for that pretty quickly.

Good luck conquering the demons in your ecoboost!

 

[SVO MkII]

We have something in common.
I definitely consider my car an SVO MkII. I bought the first SVO to arrive in Silicon Valley back in 1983. Took it to my friends BMW shop on Evelyn Ave in Sunnyvale and proceeded to learn the secrets Ford applied to that car. There were many. The front suspension and brakes were sourced from Lincoln with significantly increased travel. Single adjustable Koni struts were standard. Mustang specified lowering springs from Eibach dropped it to the bump stops. I substituted Thunderbird V8 aftermarket springs from Eibach that raised it and had a higher rate but were still too low. Recaros were standard. It had a high and low boost switch on the dash. With the crappy California premium fuel, it actually made more usable power on the low boost setting. The original car was undriveable in commuter traffic because if you lifted off part throttle in first gear the injection would shut off until idle. I believe it was Fords first attempt at port fuel injection plus emissions. Ford had a fix for that pretty quickly.

Good luck conquering the demons in your ecoboost!

I never owned an '80s SVO, but I was always intrigued by them (as well as the XR4Ti). Yes, I see the S550 Ecoboost as the spiritual successor to those original SVOs. I really enjoy it.

 

[SVO MkII]

A little update on my oil temp issues during HPDE. Did an event yesterday, and as before, (inferred) oil temp moved into the yellow range after a few laps. However, I don't believe the ECU was pulling power. There were a couple times where I felt a little loss in power, but honestly, my foot could've slipped a bit on the throttle. Not sure. Anyway, I monitored cyl head temps. I did see peak CHT of about 240. Coolant temp never budged from dead center in the gauge (180, as far as I can tell). I ordered the Livernois 160 deg t-stat. My rational is that the overall cooling system is not taxed, since the coolant temp stays pegged in the middle. I hope the colder t-stat will cause an overall reduction in coolant and CHT temps of 20 deg. Can't hurt.

 

[HeelToeHero]

Reading coolant versus cylinder head temp with a scan tool they were super close. I wouldn't trust the gauge.

 

[SVO MkII]

Reading coolant versus cylinder head temp with a scan tool they were super close. I wouldn't trust the gauge.

I've noticed for street driving they are always very close. But on the track they diverge. If the t-stat helps, great. If not, no big deal.

 

[HeelToeHero]

I've noticed for street driving they are always very close. But on the track they diverge. If the t-stat helps, great. If not, no big deal.

I've noticed for street driving they are always very close. But on the track they diverge. If the t-stat helps, great. If not, no big deal.

Does the 18+ give a numerical value of coolant temp? The physical gauge under the tach has a damper so people don't freak out seeing the needle move. You could be 30 or 40F warmer than street temps and the gauge not move from center.
If you can see coolant temps and cylinder temps lice that's different.

 

[SVO MkII]

Does the 18+ give a numerical value of coolant temp? The physical gauge under the tach has a damper so people don't freak out seeing the needle move. You could be 30 or 40F warmer than street temps and the gauge not move from center.
If you can see coolant temps and cylinder temps lice that's different.

No numbers. I'll install the t-stat next week. After it's in, I'll be able to confirm what/how it responds.

 

[SVO MkII]

Reading coolant versus cylinder head temp with a scan tool they were super close. I wouldn't trust the gauge.

OK, your lack of trust for the factory coolant gauge seems well founded. I used TrackAddict, with OBD II interface, last weekend at an HPDE event at Road America. While the factory temp/coolant gauge never moved much past the middle of the gauge, the data recorded in TrackAddict from the OBDII feed showed actual coolant temps averaging 235 during a hot lap (no pun intended!). I would definitely like to bring this down some. Especially since I was short shifting much of the time, to avoid the ECU pulling boost (due to high inferred oil temp). The thought of adding more power via any kind of tune is completely out of the question if the cooling system can't even handle the stock power levels.

The Mishimoto radiator seems like the most common choice, claiming 50% more coolant capacity, and 22% greater surface area than my PP radiator. However, I recall seeing one video describing the radiator (don't remember if it was from Mishimoto, or a reseller) where they claimed a 10 deg drop over the factory PP radiator. That's nice, but I would hope for a little more. If anyone has any other suggestions, feel free to share. Thanks.

 

[TeeLew]

The Mishimoto radiator seems like the most common choice, claiming 50% more coolant capacity, and 22% greater surface area than my PP radiator. However, I recall seeing one video describing the radiator (don't remember if it was from Mishimoto, or a reseller) where they claimed a 10 deg drop over the factory PP radiator. That's nice, but I would hope for a little more. If anyone has any other suggestions, feel free to share. Thanks.

If I were putting a rad in my car, I'd go with C&R out of Indianapolis. I've used them in difficult situations and they're as good as you can get before going to something exorbitantly expensive. AmericanMuscle.com has one for $1000, but it doesn't appear to be Ecoboost compatible, which might be a good thing. AM might have some sort of exclusive deal on their GT radiator, but this one would be necessarily different. I would guess the price directly from C&R to be in the $600 range.

Working with your exit ducting is also very beneficial. Air is much more likely to go through the rad if you can give it somewhere to go once it's through.

 

[TeeLew]

Just a thought here, if you were at 235* on water temp, then for sure the ECU would be pulling power because of that value. Are you certain that the inferred oil temp is what's triggering the power reduction? It could very well just be water temp. You realistically need to pull 40 degrees out of the water, which is _a ton_ of energy rejection. That's a legitimately big project all on its own.

 

[SVO MkII]

Just a thought here, if you were at 235* on water temp, then for sure the ECU would be pulling power because of that value. Are you certain that the inferred oil temp is what's triggering the power reduction? It could very well just be water temp. You realistically need to pull 40 degrees out of the water, which is _a ton_ of energy rejection. That's a legitimately big project all on its own.

The coolant temp data I have is what is being recorded in Track Addict via the OBD II feed. At 235, the engine is still producing max boost as needed, 20+ psi. It is only when the inferred oil temp gets into the yellow (280+ degrees, my understanding), that boost is reduced. This was true for many laps over several sessions.

I have heard from some others that 240 is the coolant temp at which the ECU pulls boost. I even touched 240, and the data overlay continues to show max boost. The temp didn't stay at 240 for more that a few seconds, and fell back to around 235. So it would be possible that had it stayed at 240 for a bit longer, the ECU may have reacted.

 

[TeeLew]

Fair enough, but it _must_ be doing something else (reducing timing/ adding fuel) before it starts pulling boost. For any racing engine, you get concerned at 200* and by 220*, you've either stopped or are short-shifting and have accepted you're going to blow it up while trying to finish. 240* on water isn't even a thing, even if your oil is 300*.

I've got a friend of a friend who is a Ford guy that I think I can get info from, but so far I haven't been able to get him to talk. If I do, I'll pass on whatever I find out.

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