GM is pulling back on EVs

[tripleyellowmustang]

Isn’t resource investment and technology development the whole point? Why blame a nation for doing the thing that they’re meant to be doing?
Seems weird.
People used to get upset at the Chinese for producing copies. Now they’re innovating, and people are mad.
Can‘t win?

@Burkey, I‘m not blaming China, it is protecting its own national interest. In the meantime, China‘s heavy investment in chip/battery technology and metal resources could potentially leave the West reliant and thus vulnerable to the Chinese ‘political interference’ and ‘economic manipulations’, if the West moves too quickly with BEV mandates. I posted a link about this previously.

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[sk47]

@Burkey, I‘m not blaming China, it is protecting its own national interest. In the meantime, China‘s heavy investment in chip/battery technology and metal resources could potentially leave the West reliant and thus vulnerable to the Chinese ‘political interference’ and ‘economic manipulations’, if the West moves too quickly with BEV mandates. I posted a link about this previously.

Hello; Burkey come to the defense of China often on these threads. Somehow in the west we are to give up and do without to slow emissions while China charges ahead opening two to four brand new coal fired power plants each month. Burn the coal to manufacture EV and green energy stuff.
Somehow because China has promised to go green decades from now, he along with others will give them a pass on today's emissions.

 

[Burkey]

@Burkey, I‘m not blaming China, it is protecting its own national interest. In the meantime, China‘s heavy investment in chip/battery technology and metal resources could potentially leave the West reliant and thus vulnerable to the Chinese ‘political interference’ and ‘economic manipulations’, if the West moves too quickly with BEV mandates. I posted a link about this previously.

The answer is to keep up with them, or at least try. Yes, it requires investment, obviously. More jobs. Better paying jobs.
There is no future in continuing to spew CO2 into the atmosphere at the current rate. This is where future wars might be created.

Even California will allow the sale of plug-in hybrids beyond 2035. So, gasoline isn’t exactly going to disappear any time soon. Car manufacturers in the US just need to work out how to compete. It’s really that simple.
China doesn’t have a stranglehold on the resources. No country does. We live in a global economy. It’s just scaremongering to suggest that the Chinese would want to prevent other countries from purchasing their products/resources.

Ironically, it might well turn out that the rest of the world starts copying Chinese products at some point.

 

[Gregs24]

The answer is to keep up with them, or at least try. Yes, it requires investment, obviously. More jobs. Better paying jobs.
There is no future in continuing to spew CO2 into the atmosphere at the current rate. This is where future wars might be created.

Even California will allow the sale of plug-in hybrids beyond 2035. So, gasoline isn’t exactly going to disappear any time soon. Car manufacturers in the US just need to work out how to compete. It’s really that simple.
China doesn’t have a stranglehold on the resources. No country does. We live in a global economy. It’s just scaremongering to suggest that the Chinese would want to prevent other countries from purchasing their products/resources.

Ironically, it might well turn out that the rest of the world starts copying Chinese products at some point.

100% agree with this

US can bury it's head in the sand but the rest of the world moves on. It doesn't matter whether you like what is happening, it IS happening. US car makers have demonstrated in the past they ignore threats at their peril. Japanese and Korean cars dominate the US sales charts, China is not far behind. Why do Ford make cars in China for example, because they understand how the global economy works!

 

[sk47]

The answer is to keep up with them, or at least try. Yes, it requires investment, obviously. More jobs. Better paying jobs.
There is no future in continuing to spew CO2 into the atmosphere at the current rate. This is where future wars might be created.

100% agree with this

It doesn't matter whether you like what is happening, it IS happening.

Hello; Oh the convoluted logic. OK so the west needs to keep up with China. I will guess such means keeping up with them by making more EV batteries, more green energy equipment and more EV's.
What is left out is the bit about does the west also start building more coal fired power plants to power this wished for keeping up scenario. That is how China is doing the deed is it not?
But no, we in the west are handicapping ourselves in that coal fired power plants have and are being shut down. The cleanest burning fuel (natural gas) is being labeled as evil and also to be removed from use.

Part of the "IT IS HAPPENING" is a massive increase in current Co2 emissions from places such as China, Cobalt and lithium mining and such all in the name of reducing future emissions. Afraid it does not make sense.

A shine job was put onto the BEV and for a time people had no frame of reference to judge just how shallow the shinny bit of EV's was. Now we all get to see the ugly underside of the EV. From advertised range needing to be ignored and charging reduced by 40% if you hope to have the battery last over time. Then to how range is greatly reduced when it is hot or cold. I can go on. Reality is not matching the hype.

 

[tripleyellowmustang]

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/01/22/china-poses-growing-threat-to-us-auto-industry.html

Why China poses a growing threat to the U.S. auto industry

China recently reported exports of more than 5 million vehicles in 2023, topping Japan to become the top country for car exports in the world.

Rising volume from Chinse automakers like SAIC, Dongfeng and BYD comes amid declining U.S. vehicle exports as companies like General Motors have cut international operations.

DETROIT — “Chinese automakers pose a growing threat to their American counterparts — even without selling directly to consumers in the U.S. market.”

“It comes amid declining U.S. vehicle exports as companies such as General Motors have cut international operations. U.S. auto exports in 2022, the most recent data available, were down 25% from their peak in 2016, according to the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis.

“‘My No. 1 competitor is the Chinese carmakers,‘ said Carlos Tavares, CEO of Chrysler parent Stellantis, during a virtual media roundtable Friday. ‘This is going to be a big fight. There is no other way for a global carmaker like Stellantis that is operating all over the world than to go head-on with the Chinese carmakers. There is no other way.’”

“‘There’s a lot of people who are out there who think that the top 10 car companies are going to be Tesla followed by nine Chinese car companies. I think they might not be wrong,‘ Musk said at The New York Times’ Dealbook conference in November.

“Backed by local and federal governments, the growth of Chinese automakers began in their home country — taking share away from mandatory joint ventures between non-domestic automakers and Chinese companies.”

 

[tripleyellowmustang]

The answer is to keep up with them, or at least try. Yes, it requires investment, obviously. More jobs. Better paying jobs.
There is no future in continuing to spew CO2 into the atmosphere at the current rate. This is where future wars might be created.

Even California will allow the sale of plug-in hybrids beyond 2035. So, gasoline isn’t exactly going to disappear any time soon. Car manufacturers in the US just need to work out how to compete. It’s really that simple.
China doesn’t have a stranglehold on the resources. No country does. We live in a global economy. It’s just scaremongering to suggest that the Chinese would want to prevent other countries from purchasing their products/resources.

Ironically, it might well turn out that the rest of the world starts copying Chinese products at some point.

How a handful of metals could determine the future of the electric car industry
“And there's another big challenge: The existing supply chain is dominated by a single country: China. “

"’China pretty much controls almost all the metals required,‘ says Kwasi Ampofo, the head of metals and mining at the research company BloombergNEF.”

China's dominance raises big geopolitical concerns
“Beijing controls about three-quarters of the market for the minerals that are essential for batteries.

It's not that China won the geological lottery and just happened to have really rich deposits of these minerals. In fact, the richest deposits are in places like the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Australia and Chile.

But China set out intentionally to dominate the processing of these minerals, as part of a plan to become a major player in electric vehicles.

Beijing had the authoritarian power, the money, the massive market and the will to make that happen. And it worked — much to the anxiety of the West.”

The U.S. wants to reduce its reliance on China
“Worried about future access to battery minerals, the Biden administration and other governments around the world are trying to build up their domestic supply chains to reduce their dependence on China.”

 

[Burkey]

How a handful of metals could determine the future of the electric car industry
“And there's another big challenge: The existing supply chain is dominated by a single country: China. “

"’China pretty much controls almost all the metals required,‘ says Kwasi Ampofo, the head of metals and mining at the research company BloombergNEF.”

China's dominance raises big geopolitical concerns
“Beijing controls about three-quarters of the market for the minerals that are essential for batteries.

It's not that China won the geological lottery and just happened to have really rich deposits of these minerals. In fact, the richest deposits are in places like the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Australia and Chile.

But China set out intentionally to dominate the processing of these minerals, as part of a plan to become a major player in electric vehicles.

Beijing had the authoritarian power, the money, the massive market and the will to make that happen. And it worked — much to the anxiety of the West.”

The U.S. wants to reduce its reliance on China
“Worried about future access to battery minerals, the Biden administration and other governments around the world are trying to build up their domestic supply chains to reduce their dependence on China.”

The US, like most countries, should probably aim to reduce reliance on other countries as much as possible. It’s hardly Chinas fault that nobody bothered to try and keep pace with them.
We didn‘t blame the Japanese for leading the way in electronics for decades.

 

[sk47]

It’s hardly Chinas fault that nobody bothered to try and keep pace with them.
We didn‘t blame the Japanese for leading the way in electronics for decades.

Hello; For some of us the point is not criticism against China for being active within the EV and "green energy" sectors. A point is how you and a couple others keep giving them a pass for doing so in such an environmentally dirty manner. At the same time western countries, especially the USA, are to be hamstrung, in effect, within ever more stringent regulations.

Because you so regularly miss the point let me present it another way. In the USA and a few other places coal fired power is vilified. Many such plants are closed with plans to shut down even more. Even the cleanest of abundant fossil fuels, natural gas, is become vilified of late. Yet you continue to make excuses for and even laude Chinas actions. Whatever emission reductions we in the west achieve will be a pittance compared to the increase in Chinas emissions. Of course, it is not just China actively increasing environmentally damaging emissions, there are some others.

 

[key01]

Ford cuts prices of electric Mustang Mach-E by up to $8,100
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/02/20/for...are|com.apple.UIKit.activity.CopyToPasteboard

 

[Gregs24]

Ford cuts prices of electric Mustang Mach-E by up to $8,100
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/02/20/ford-cuts-prices-of-electric-mustang-mach-e-by-up-to-8100-.html?__source=iosappshare|com.apple.UIKit.activity.CopyToPasteboard

Not surprising really

The Mach-E lost eligibility for a $3,750 tax credit on Jan. 1 after new U.S. Treasury Department battery sourcing requirements aimed at weaning the electric vehicle supply chain away from China took effect. Numerous other models also lost tax credits.

 

[Mitch03]

Not surprising really

The Mach-E lost eligibility for a $3,750 tax credit on Jan. 1 after new U.S. Treasury Department battery sourcing requirements aimed at weaning the electric vehicle supply chain away from China took effect. Numerous other models also lost tax credits.

Because nobody wants an EV!

 

[K4fxd]

Went to the dealer today for some parts, they had 4 MackE's in front and I was told they have 10 in the back lot and 16 more on the way. They haven't sold one since Jan.

 

[Burkey]

Because nobody wants an EV!

Nobody…literally nobody…except for the ever increasing number of people who actually do want one. But yes, “NOBODY”.

“Since Q3 2021, EV sales have increased every quarter, and the share of total light-duty vehicle sales that EVs represent isn't shrinking, either. The share of new sales that are plug-in electric increased from about 3% in Q1 2021 to about 7% in 2022 and then reached more than 10% in Q3 2023.”

 

[sk47]

Mass Layoffs Triggered by Plummeting Demand for Electric Vehicles in the U.S (msn.com)

Nobody…literally nobody…except for the ever increasing number of people who actually do want one. But yes, “NOBODY”.

“Since Q3 2021, EV sales have increased every quarter, and the share of total light-duty vehicle sales that EVs represent isn't shrinking, either. The share of new sales that are plug-in electric increased from about 3% in Q1 2021 to about 7% in 2022 and then reached more than 10% in Q3 2023.”

Hello; What is the source of this information?

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