Ford Racing ProCal Tune

[Jayhawk Jake]

Well, I just ordered a ProCal tune on the cheap for a couple reasons.

1. I wanted to upgrade the intake for better throttle response / sound, the FP paper conical filter fits the bill (was gonna order one back when Juben did the group buy on early production units but never got around to it) which is half the cost of the kit, paid $450 for the whole shebang on a lucky score.

2. I need the ford programmer to change the darn axel ratio since doing the GT diff swap, speed is correct, but I have a feeling the odometer isn't, while I have low enough miles it doesn't make much of a difference, it may over time. Local dealer said they don't have one and literally told me to go buy the FP programmer which costs $250 by itself anway or go to a shop...

3. I've been debating OAR with other members (I could be wrong or I may be right, we'll see), I've NEVER once seen a value of -1.00, but am on a quest to see if any tune can achieve a -1.00, be it stock, FP or LMS. That would answer the question about fuel quality and how my car is running.

4. It will be interesting to see how the FP tune feels comparatively to stock and LMS 91 on a tank of 93.

5. I can fully disable that darn sound symposer with the FP programmer. Hooray!

Thankfully all my current mods are stock compatible, which is why I avoided the DP as much as I wanted to try one, I wanted to maintain OE PCM software comparability in case I ran into issues, in case I needed stock to pass e-check or if I ever sell the car and I'm glad I did! Time will tell after the holiday what the logs show, got some long trips coming up so should be a good opportunity to get some big logs in some cold weather. The only oddity is the 160F thermostat, since the fan profile is set for 180F stock unit, however I ran the 160F thermostat with stock tune, it just lets the temp creep up to 20F higher, but once you let into it, cools back down, so small swings in temp isn't a big deal.

I don't know about the sound symposer, mine seems to still be running? I did put a new exhaust in last week, so maybe I just haven't noticed it shut off the symposer because the exhaust is louder than stock.

I think the Ford tune shuts off OAR? There's a setting in the calibration that has OAR ON-OFF and by default it's OFF. I chatted with an FP rep online about it and he said to leave it off unless there's a problem.

Sponsored

 

[Witj85]

Livernois does not dyno an ecoboost mustang in 5th gear dude. What kind of crack are you smoking? 5th gear is WAY WAY to long and creates to much heat. Dyno's are done in 3rd or 4th gear. And I'll tell ford to their face WOT at 2000rpm HURTS the motor and I have my tuner with data logs to PROVE it as he's the one that pointed it out to me.
Also why are you even comparing a 3.5L v6 twin turbo BUILT for towing to a 2.3L 4 cylinder engine that was mainly designed for economy. That is an apples to wine comparison man. If you can't see that then you and I don't ever need to have another discussion.

FYI alot of other companies dyno these cars in 5th not just Livernois. As the lion also stated its a 1:1 ratio, like when ppl dynoed the older 5spd 5.0s in 4th because it was also a 1:1 ratio. Also crack kills bud.

 

[shelbywannabe]

:bolt: Shots fired

 

[TheLion]

FYI alot of other companies dyno these cars in 5th not just Livernois. As the lion also stated its a 1:1 ratio, like when ppl dynoed the older 5spd 5.0s in 4th because it was also a 1:1 ratio. Also crack kills bud.

Thank you :cheers:. Some sensible response. BTW, boy that top end is anemic on the stock tune...going from LMS 91 back to stock. The bottom and mid isn't bad though, sure it's not as strong, but not bad at all, still enjoyable to drive, then again that 3.73 rear end is going to help a lot as over the stock 3.31, which is what I had the last time I tried the stock tune, which just felt lethargic through and through.

That 3.73 livens up the stock tune a decent bit, reminds me of driving an empty F-150 V8 for some reason, just has this nice torqy pull to it that I enjoy so much, at least until you get up past about 5800 then it fades fast on stock tune even with a FMIC, BOV and 3.73, but not nearly as badly as it did bone stock, where it completely just fell on its face.

I am thinking the FP tune will be like a less powerful variant of the LMS 91 tune in terms of feel. The top end of the FP tune isn't as flat as the LMS 91, but it isn't bad either and that's where their biggest gains are at over 100 HP at 6k. Should feel nice an stout overall. I'll bet though with a FMIC that top end will flatten out quite a bit more as I mentioned before, I"ve seen some dyno's on bone stock EB's gain around 25 hp on the top end just from a FMIC due eliminating heat soak, wish i could find that thread...

 

[TheLion]

Here's some propaganda if anyone is interested (their statement about proprietary interfacing with Ford Engineering is something I tried to drive home with LMS as well, but I don't think it really caught on): http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/buying-maintenance/news/a31138/ford-performance-mustang-ecoboost-specs/

 

[TheLion]

I don't know about the sound symposer, mine seems to still be running? I did put a new exhaust in last week, so maybe I just haven't noticed it shut off the symposer because the exhaust is louder than stock.

I think the Ford tune shuts off OAR? There's a setting in the calibration that has OAR ON-OFF and by default it's OFF. I chatted with an FP rep online about it and he said to leave it off unless there's a problem.

No we couldn't have that now, if your OAR isn't at -1.00 your car will explode :doh:...it will immediately explode because you don't even have an OAR anymore....:lol:

 

[jbailer]

FYI alot of other companies dyno these cars in 5th not just Livernois. As the lion also stated its a 1:1 ratio, like when ppl dynoed the older 5spd 5.0s in 4th because it was also a 1:1 ratio. Also crack kills bud.

Not arguing, just information, I believe that is only with the manual. I believe the automatic is:

4th = 1.14
5th = 0.87

In that case, it's better to dyno in 4th on the auto. I've never hear of any tuner doing dyno pulls in less than a 1:1 ratio gear (if I said that right, less/more - just not an overdrive gear).

 

[apx632]

FYI alot of other companies dyno these cars in 5th not just Livernois. As the lion also stated its a 1:1 ratio, like when ppl dynoed the older 5spd 5.0s in 4th because it was also a 1:1 ratio. Also crack kills bud.

Maybe the manual cars as 5th gear is a 1:1. In the automatic it's 4th since 5th is a .87. A pull in 5th in my car would take entirely too long and probably cause way to much heat.

 

[GJarrett]

I don't know about the sound symposer, mine seems to still be running? I did put a new exhaust in last week, so maybe I just haven't noticed it shut off the symposer because the exhaust is louder than stock.

I think the Ford tune shuts off OAR? There's a setting in the calibration that has OAR ON-OFF and by default it's OFF. I chatted with an FP rep online about it and he said to leave it off unless there's a problem.

Two questions; I am purchasing this tune in the next week or so.

First, I may be in the minority but actually like the sound symposer - if the tune DOES disable it, is there a setting option in the tune that keeps it? Secondly, if the OAR setting is set to "on", would that mean that 91 octane would not be required, and we could run regular gas when we have to just as if we were still on a stock tune? There's been two instances in the past couple of months (Alabama pipeline break, etc) where local stations only had regular fuel. I'm a little leery of being locked into required premium fuel.

I know nothing about tunes but am trying to learn as quick as I can...

 

[Jayhawk Jake]

No we couldn't have that now, if your OAR isn't at -1.00 your car will explode :doh:...it will immediately explode because you don't even have an OAR anymore....:lol:

I've driven over 100 miles without a boom, I guess we'll see what happens!

 

[PRG3k]

3. I've been debating OAR with other members (I could be wrong or I may be right, we'll see), I've NEVER once seen a value of -1.00, but am on a quest to see if any tune can achieve a -1.00, be it stock, FP or LMS. That would answer the question about fuel quality and how my car is running.

Where in the US are you located? I read through the other thread. Unfortunately, it sounds like your gas is bad, or whatever software you're using is inaccurate. Maybe both. I've had mine dip maybe once or twice on bad 93. Say 'see you later to those stations.' Mine hasn't moved from -1.0 for close to a year now.

Secondly, if the OAR setting is set to "on", would that mean that 91 octane would not be required, and we could run regular gas when we have to just as if we were still on a stock tune? There's been two instances in the past couple of months (Alabama pipeline break, etc) where local stations only had regular fuel. I'm a little leery of being locked into required premium fuel.

I know nothing about tunes but am trying to learn as quick as I can...

Need more info on what 'OAR being turned off' means; if it means that its truly off; or if its true at all. No OAR would mean no trimming of the timing scale based on detonation (worst case) or additional timing based on no knock detection (best case). In other words its the biggest safeguard in the Ecoboost lineup. My advice, don't hamfistedly run a tune with that much bad fuel floating around you.

 

[jrock]

Where in the US are you located? I read through the other thread. Unfortunately, it sounds like your gas is bad, or whatever software you're using is inaccurate. Maybe both. I've had mine dip maybe once or twice on bad 93. Say 'see you later to those stations.' Mine hasn't moved from -1.0 for close to a year now.




Need more info on what 'OAR being turned off' means; if it means that its truly off; or if its true at all. No OAR would mean no trimming of the timing scale based on detonation (worst case) or additional timing based on no knock detection (best case). In other words its the biggest safeguard in the Ecoboost lineup. My advice, don't hamfistedly run a tune with that much bad fuel floating around you.

check out this site for some OAR info:
http://stratifiedauto.com/blog/unde...ons-in-your-high-performance-ecoboost-engine/

 

[TheLion]

Where in the US are you located? I read through the other thread. Unfortunately, it sounds like your gas is bad, or whatever software you're using is inaccurate. Maybe both. I've had mine dip maybe once or twice on bad 93. Say 'see you later to those stations.' Mine hasn't moved from -1.0 for close to a year now.




Need more info on what 'OAR being turned off' means; if it means that its truly off; or if its true at all. No OAR would mean no trimming of the timing scale based on detonation (worst case) or additional timing based on no knock detection (best case). In other words its the biggest safeguard in the Ecoboost lineup. My advice, don't hamfistedly run a tune with that much bad fuel floating around you.

I have yet to find a station which provided -1.00 here in Oh. I have used BP, Shell (which supposedly the additives cause more detonation and yes shell gas is what I cracked the plug insulator on, however I also had an incorrect plug choice which is the bigger factor), Speedway and Marathon. When I had that one incident with the cracked plug insulator on #4, Brisk said that is one of the cleanest burning engines they have ever seen. I showed them the OE plugs which also had several thousand miles on them, same comment. I have a hard time believing an improper combustion process will result in a picture perfect plug wear, spark plugs tell us a great deal about what's going on, including detonation which shows up on the plug: https://www.briskracing.com/spark-plug-diagnosis

Furthermore, KS1 raw values are nearly identicle both stock and tuned. Timing advance is actually slightly better tuned (never any negative advance unless it's under no boost, 10% type of light loads, which is normal). Currently running the stock tune to see if I can get the OAR to initialize and see what the stock tune produces. However there's quite a bit of debate on OAR. Some people suggest if your OAR isn't -1.00 you're going to fail an engine over time or the fuel isn't proper for the car, however the entire point of OAR isn't to protect the engine, it's to optimize the power of the engine based on fuel quality instead of assuming the least aggressive timing strategy 100% of the time as has been done in the past. It's an efficiency optimization scheme which is misunderstood.

Sure, an OAR of -1.00 means your fuel allows the most aggressive timing strategy deemed permissible, it doesn't mean the fuel isn't appropriate for the tune, which would be running 87 or 89 octane on a 91 octane tuned car. That will produce knock events which occur too severely and frequently for the ECU to adjust timing fast enough, in fact the ECU may not be permitted to scale back timing far enough period, so it will always knock until failure under such conditions. That would be the definition of running a fuel not appropriate for the tune. That being said, some 91/92/93 is better than others, however all 91 should be a minimum of 91 octane, an OAR of +1.00 would likely indicate the bare minimum, there may be a 1 octane buffer, so depending on the tune, a +1.00 might indicate an actual octane of 90 for example. However an OAR of -1.00 might indicate an actual octane of 92 or some where in between, but the entire purpose of OAR is making the most of the fuel in your area, for which some is better than others.

KR or Timing Advance is what protects the engine cycle to cycle. OAR is a scaling factor to timing tables which help optimize the timing table for the given fuel quality. An OAR of -0.5 suggests the fuel quality permits 75% of the most aggressive timing (scale is +1 to -1.0) steps (larger steps or more advance). OAR is about efficiency, not safety, knock sensors and timing tables are what allow safe operation and adjust in real time cycle by cycle, however you can only be so aggressive safely, which is where OAR comes in. The OAR allows the ECU to learn how large of steps it can advance on that particular tank of fuel by using the scaling factor. The ECU could be programmed to use a conservative advance strategy all the time, which is actually the safest because it reduces risk of one time errata (and abnormal one time condition which could cause knock when otherwise it normally would not), however with better than average quality fuels there would still be energy there the engine cannot take advantage of as it' can't scale the timing table more aggressively (aka OAR is off). Now using a fixed OAR could be detrimental or safer depend on the scaling factor, using a conserative OAR all the time, like +1.00 would be the safest it can be, but using a -1.00 all the time would be the most dangerous.

FP disables the OAR all together by simply running a fixed value of scaling, i"m not sure what it is, but I have to believe it's conservative, especially given they state their tune uses slightly more fuel than stock where most tunes tend to break even or even increase efficiency (by leaning). LMS leaves OAR on as do many others. Technically what FP is doing is safer assuming their fixed scaling value is conservative. Wasn't terribly familiar with OAR, but after understanding more about it's purpose and intent I think it's very clear.

At any rate, I did data log the stock tune and came up with the following: Engine Load 100%, RPM 5266, KR 0, KS1 457, timing advance 6, 15.08 PSI boost. With the LMS 91 tune, I never saw a negative ignition correction under load, with the stock tune, I have a -2 degree timing advance at 4770 rpm, 98.8% load, 17.26 PSI boost, 346 KS1.

KR is always 0, I've never seen KR at anything but 0 tuned or stock, so i'm not sure the PID is functioning. OAR has ONLY showed up one time, after probably about 4,000 miles with no flashes or resets, that's when I had -0.61 when running LMS 93 on 93 octane. Then I flashed back to LMS 91 on the same tank of 93 octane and got a -0.74 OAR.

I would have expected OAR to reset after flashing, however I'm thinking because both flashes were LMS, it may have retained long term data and only reset the short term.

 

[jbailer]

Two questions; I am purchasing this tune in the next week or so.

First, I may be in the minority but actually like the sound symposer - if the tune DOES disable it, is there a setting option in the tune that keeps it? Secondly, if the OAR setting is set to "on", would that mean that 91 octane would not be required, and we could run regular gas when we have to just as if we were still on a stock tune? There's been two instances in the past couple of months (Alabama pipeline break, etc) where local stations only had regular fuel. I'm a little leery of being locked into required premium fuel.

I know nothing about tunes but am trying to learn as quick as I can...

This is just a guess. I believe OAR is pretty aggressive in how it backs off the timing and probably robs a lot of the performance FP gained with this tune and that's why they turned it off. The timing recovery after backoff is probably not quick.

Just my opinion, don't hold me to anything but I would imagine they left it as an option for a reason. My guess would be if you live in an area where higher octane fuel isn't readily available or there are just known issues the ASE tech could enable it to avoid issues. I'm still certain they would want you to run at least 91. There would be no reason to do this if you weren't going to run high octane I think.

I think FP must be very confident in the safety of their tune being able to shut OAR off. It did take them 2.5 years to get this released. I'm sure they focused on reliability since they are warranting about 10 times as much as they are selling the product for. Even worse than that if you take just their profit after materials, design/engineering, manufacturing and delivery. Then how much they would be liable for if an engine blew, probably $6k.

 

[TheLion]

I will say this though, another memeber pointed out that Livernois may increase boost more than stock in other areas even thought their peak boost isn't much higher (I have seen 21.5, stock highest I've seen is 20 psi, so not much). I can confirm that. Going WOT in 4th gear on the highway I saw around 12-15 psi, with Livernois, I would see up to 18 or 19 psi under the same conditions, which is how they achieve their impressive table top power curve that holds over 280 wheel hp from 4,000 to 6,500 rpm.

Also I realized why I hear so much of the engines clankyness. It's the steeda shifter. It acts like a tuning fork and conducts noise, very much like using a screw driver on a part of the engine. I can put my hand over it and squeeze to affect its frequency of vibration and the sounds change tone...kinda funny. I looked at the stock shifter and realized it's actually a 2 piece design, with a hard rubber / or plastic insulating element separating the upper and lower half. This would eliminate or reduce the tuning fork effect. I've been going crazy trying to figure out why I hear every little tic, toc, knock and clank the engine makes....as I don't recall as much of the annoying "diesel" like clankyness.

Sponsored