A10 PP1 vs PP2

[Quarter Horse]

Sure the up shifts may be quicker but you have to hit 2-3 gears down each you can't skip them like you can in a manual.

The A10 jumps to the necessary gear without a hiccup. It will skip from 8 to 4 and back to 9 if required. In Sport and Track modes the engine and trans are where they need to be to power out of a corner or when blipping down coming into one. Manuals are fun, but the A10 is a phenomenal transmission. I just hit 5100 miles and the thing has been seamless.

To the OP, I'll be adding PP2 components down the line.

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[howlins550]

The A10 jumps to the necessary gear without a hiccup. It will skip from 8 to 4 and back to 9 if required. In Sport and Track modes the engine and trans are where they need to be to power out of a corner or when blipping down coming into one. Manuals are fun, but the A10 is a phenomenal transmission. I just hit 5100 miles and the thing has been seamless.

To the OP, I'll be adding PP2 components down the line.

Nice, thanks for the reply! I think thats where im at now, wanting what the pp2 has to offer, but with the 10r80

 

[MrCincinnati]

With regard to tires - with the pp2 you’ll need new tires before your 2nd oil change and driving in the rain will be a bit of an adventure. Sure, you can swap to different tires after — but I imagine the tires make up most of the gap performance wise between the two in the twisties. So if you’re aesthetically drawn to one or the other then non factor. But if you’re considering non straight line performance as a differentiating factor then you’ll need to include $1600 for tires every oil change after the first and no driving in freezing temps.

 

[Lonmon]

Yeah, to all you who have not spent any real time behind the wheel of an a10 car you need to. This trans is basically cheating. In sport mode it rev matches automatically when on the brakes down shifting perfectly approaching a turn then keeps the rpms near peak torque for exiting the corner. It really is fun and amazing. I can focus solely on steering and monitoring the rear end traction. Both hands on the wheel the whole process. Some might say its not as fun without shifting but I would not agree. It does take more skill to drive at the limit while shifting though. If you need to be the Obi Wan of driving then you need to learn on a manual obviously. I am ok with my 27yrs of manual experience and embrace the technology!

 

[EFI]

Why don't you just upgrade the PP1 to match that of the PP2 setup? The 2 main differences are tires/wheels and suspension tuning.

You can put square 305s on the PP1 and with the auto you should be smoking PP2s on the track, and if not you can always get the plug in chip thingy that updates the magneride tuning.

 

[earlSpilner]

Well driving an auto in rush hour traffic is a reason. 6 speeds suck in traffic.

Manual in traffic is a personal preference. Both my mustang and my winter truck are manual and I don't ever get tired driving them in traffic. In my mind a car like the mustang will always be more fun with a manual.

 

[UAmach1]

Well driving an auto in rush hour traffic is a reason. 6 speeds suck in traffic.

Honestly as a person that would do either DC or NYC rush hour traffic daily for years, I never had an issue driving a 5spd in those settings. So those complains are way over blown to me.

 

[Lonmon]

I can relate to that with mostly stock vehicles. My Camry believe it or not is a v6 manual and I daily drove that vehicle for several years 100k miles with no issue but I have also had my last two manual mustangs with upgraded clutches and they were a bitch to drive in stop and go traffic. One time I got caught in some accident traffic for over an hour and I almost had to pull over to rest my freakin leg. I don't have that problem anymore no matter how much power I put to it now.

 

[control4userguy]

... you can always get the plug in chip thingy that updates the magneride tuning.

You referring to the DSC V3?

 

[Madtel4]

I have had 4, 5 and 6 speeds since the 1970s the clutch in my Shelby is a killer. I went with PP 1 because of the A10. I to love the PP2 wheels and may change some day. Too bad Ford won’t let us order what we want.
Lee

 

[Cardude99]

Honestly as a person that would do either DC or NYC rush hour traffic daily for years, I never had an issue driving a 5spd in those settings. So those complains are way over blown to me.

To each their own.

 

[gbgreen]

I'm with Silver Bullitt, earlSpilner, and UAmach1 on the manual vs. auto discussion.
In my 47 years of licensed driving, I have never once wished that I had an automatic transmission: not even in the heaviest traffic in NYC or accident/construction backups. And I want to do my own rev matching on downshift via heel-and-toe, thankyouverymuch. I realize that flappy paddle automatic gearboxes are the future (and even the present) - even for racing gearboxes at the highest levels - but I still love the connection one gets with the car when using a manual transmission. Especially a very good one.

I am debating the very same issue as the OP (if I am ever able to sell my 2016 V6 Coupe). The PP2 is the ultimate (semi-affordable) Mustang for me. It would be strictly a street car for me (I have road-raced all manner of cars on the track, from modified production cars to formula cars and prototypes, and those days are now behind me). One big plus of the PP2 is the fact that Billy Johnson did the development work on the package. Billy is a casual acquaintance from my years of being a Race Strategist/Race Engineer in Grand-Am and IMSA. I know that Billy's input will make the package an excellent product.

There are only 3 real downsides to the PP2 model for me:
1) The tires. Now, any Mustang I buy will never be driven in very cold weather, or any sort of inclement weather (even rain), so one would think that the tires would be a total plus. But the feedback that I am hearing (mostly from this forum) is that a) these gummy tires pick up all manner of detritus and fling it back at the paint - especially given the poke on the front tires, and b) they have a very short life span.
2) The cost of PP2. No matter how you cut it, it's getting up there. At least for me.
3) Related to 2), the PP2 requires the 301A or 401A package. Why? I don't want anything from either of those packages.
I actually don't care that Ford is now charging for the Recaros. I prefer the base seats. I just wish that I could get a discount for choosing the base seats. Actually, now that I think of it, I hope that one *can* get the base seats on PP2 (IOW, I hope that the Recaros are not now a "required option").

My dream PP2 would be a base GT with the following options: PP2, Active Valve Exhaust, Ruby Red Metallic paint. That's all. Kona Blue or Shadow Black are other color considerations.

My alternative to a PP2 would be a base GT with the following options: PP1 (with perhaps Spoiler Delete), MagneRide, Active Valve Exhaust, Ruby Red Metallic paint. That's all. I described both MagneRide and Active Valve Exhaust to my wife, and she actually sees them as a benefit to her as well, as I can dial up a smooth ride and quiet exhaust when she is in the car, and then get my jollies with Track Mode on both when I drive by myself.
The downsides to a PP1 are:
1) No PP2 wheels (man those things are nice…), spoiler, splitter, or suspension tuning.
2) The PP1 wheels (not a fan of black wheels at all).
3) The rear wing is a bit much for me. Maybe. I'm not sure. While I am on this point, I don't understand why the "Spoiler Delete Option" is a zero cost difference. That wing has to be worth at least a couple hundred bucks, *and* there is less labor to install it.

I could fix 2) by using PlatiDip with Metalizer to get a nice Nickel finish on the wheels. I do like the PP1 wheels with the Nickel finish. (Yes, I do know that the "Luster Nickel-painted Forged Aluminum Wheels" are coming back in 2018 with "Late Availability", but very few PP1-optioned cars seem to be built with these wheels, and I am looking to try to pick up a good deal on a leftover 2018 model off of some dealer's lot, if possible).

There is one other thing that perhaps someone can explain: the "2018 Mustang Major Product Changes" document indicates that, for the GT model, the only requirement for the MagneRide™ Damping System is the GT Performance Package. And the GT Performance Package does not have any requirements. But the 2018 Mustang Build & Price tool requires the 301A package when you choose the MagneRide™ Damping System option. And every window sticker I have ever seen for a PP1 with MagneRide also has the 301A package. Is the Product Changes document wrong, or is there some sort of "informal" requirement?

Since I'm not going to track the car, the PP1 would have slightly better ride on the street than the PP2 (especially with the MagneRide tuned to comfort), and it should come in a few thousand dollars cheaper (especially if I can somehow get MagneRide without the 301A package).

Then again, I could save another big chunk of money if I just go with a base GT (no PP1) with the "18-inch x 8-inch Machined-face Aluminum Wheels with Low-gloss Ebony Black-painted pockets" (I really don't like the wheels on the base GT), and Active Valve Exhaust. But then I would have to give up MagneRide, as well as well as all the PP1 handling goodies...

BTW, thanks to all for all of the great information on this forum.

 

[Silver Bullitt]

I'm with Silver Bullitt, earlSpilner, and UAmach1 on the manual vs. auto discussion.
In my 47 years of licensed driving, I have never once wished that I had an automatic transmission: not even in the heaviest traffic in NYC or accident/construction backups. And I want to do my own rev matching on downshift via heel-and-toe, thankyouverymuch. I realize that flappy paddle automatic gearboxes are the future (and even the present) - even for racing gearboxes at the highest levels - but I still love the connection one gets with the car when using a manual transmission. Especially a very good one.

I am debating the very same issue as the OP (if I am ever able to sell my 2016 V6 Coupe). The PP2 is the ultimate (semi-affordable) Mustang for me. It would be strictly a street car for me (I have road-raced all manner of cars on the track, from modified production cars to formula cars and prototypes, and those days are now behind me). One big plus of the PP2 is the fact that Billy Johnson did the development work on the package. Billy is a casual acquaintance from my years of being a Race Strategist/Race Engineer in Grand-Am and IMSA. I know that Billy's input will make the package an excellent product.

There are only 3 real downsides to the PP2 model for me:
1) The tires. Now, any Mustang I buy will never be driven in very cold weather, or any sort of inclement weather (even rain), so one would think that the tires would be a total plus. But the feedback that I am hearing (mostly from this forum) is that a) these gummy tires pick up all manner of detritus and fling it back at the paint - especially given the poke on the front tires, and b) they have a very short life span.
2) The cost of PP2. No matter how you cut it, it's getting up there. At least for me.
3) Related to 2), the PP2 requires the 301A or 401A package. Why? I don't want anything from either of those packages.
I actually don't care that Ford is now charging for the Recaros. I prefer the base seats. I just wish that I could get a discount for choosing the base seats. Actually, now that I think of it, I hope that one *can* get the base seats on PP2 (IOW, I hope that the Recaros are not now a "required option").

My dream PP2 would be a base GT with the following options: PP2, Active Valve Exhaust, Ruby Red Metallic paint. That's all. Kona Blue or Shadow Black are other color considerations.

My alternative to a PP2 would be a base GT with the following options: PP1 (with perhaps Spoiler Delete), MagneRide, Active Valve Exhaust, Ruby Red Metallic paint. That's all. I described both MagneRide and Active Valve Exhaust to my wife, and she actually sees them as a benefit to her as well, as I can dial up a smooth ride and quiet exhaust when she is in the car, and then get my jollies with Track Mode on both when I drive by myself.
The downsides to a PP1 are:
1) No PP2 wheels (man those things are nice…), spoiler, splitter, or suspension tuning.
2) The PP1 wheels (not a fan of black wheels at all).
3) The rear wing is a bit much for me. Maybe. I'm not sure. While I am on this point, I don't understand why the "Spoiler Delete Option" is a zero cost difference. That wing has to be worth at least a couple hundred bucks, *and* there is less labor to install it.

I could fix 2) by using PlatiDip with Metalizer to get a nice Nickel finish on the wheels. I do like the PP1 wheels with the Nickel finish. (Yes, I do know that the "Luster Nickel-painted Forged Aluminum Wheels" are coming back in 2018 with "Late Availability", but very few PP1-optioned cars seem to be built with these wheels, and I am looking to try to pick up a good deal on a leftover 2018 model off of some dealer's lot, if possible).

There is one other thing that perhaps someone can explain: the "2018 Mustang Major Product Changes" document indicates that, for the GT model, the only requirement for the MagneRide™ Damping System is the GT Performance Package. And the GT Performance Package does not have any requirements. But the 2018 Mustang Build & Price tool requires the 301A package when you choose the MagneRide™ Damping System option. And every window sticker I have ever seen for a PP1 with MagneRide also has the 301A package. Is the Product Changes document wrong, or is there some sort of "informal" requirement?

Since I'm not going to track the car, the PP1 would have slightly better ride on the street than the PP2 (especially with the MagneRide tuned to comfort), and it should come in a few thousand dollars cheaper (especially if I can somehow get MagneRide without the 301A package).

Then again, I could save another big chunk of money if I just go with a base GT (no PP1) with the "18-inch x 8-inch Machined-face Aluminum Wheels with Low-gloss Ebony Black-painted pockets" (I really don't like the wheels on the base GT), and Active Valve Exhaust. But then I would have to give up MagneRide, as well as well as all the PP1 handling goodies...

BTW, thanks to all for all of the great information on this forum.

I'd say start looking really hard for a 2018 PP2 now. They should start showing up on dealers' lots now for the next couple months. I know the tires can be an issue, but I'm getting my 301A PP2 w/ active exhaust for less than $40K. I'm just going to ante up $1,200 for more streetable tires and have the dealer swap them out and then sell the SC2's for whatever I can get for them. I know my dealer has a black PP2 coming in, but I don't know if it's 301A or 401A.

 

[growler]

back in the 1900's I'm sure there were a lot of fellas that thought whipping a horse in the ass was a lot more fun than pressing a pedal down to go fast...but they lost...same thing with stick shift in last ten years,,your going slower and losing money on mileage...for what? the satisfaction that your going slower and losing money...? the pp2 shoulda had auto....fast is fast...no matter how u get there.. and I WAS a stick man I even had a stick fusion..its over I get it

 

[howlins550]

back in the 1900's I'm sure there were a lot of fellas that thought whipping a horse in the ass was a lot more fun than pressing a pedal down to go fast...but they lost...same thing with stick shift in last ten years,,your going slower and losing money on mileage...for what? the satisfaction that your going slower and losing money...? the pp2 shoulda had auto....fast is fast...no matter how u get there.. and I WAS a stick man I even had a stick fusion..its over I get it

:lol:

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