2021 MUSTANG (S650) - 7th Generation Mustang Confirmed

[millhouse]

Okay then -- so some theoretical S550 built with the F150 construction methods and materials might shave -- what's your best guess? One hundred pounds? Two? Could it be close to the three hundred I want it to be?

Considering most of the F150 weight savings is in the aluminum body and bed...and the mustang already has some aluminum components, I wouldn't expect to save much more than 50-100lbs by going to an all aluminum body. More weight savings could certainly be had in changing some of the chassis components to aluminum however.

Keep in mind, the bigger the vehicle, the bigger the potential weight savings. The mustang is a hell of a lot smaller than an F150.

Sponsored

 

[williamwally]

That overhang is there for a reason....it's not all aesthetics. The crumple zones incorporate that overhang for occupant protection.

And no, sacrificing trunk space does not need to be done. These cars aren't Miatas for petes sake. The only way these cars are getting any smaller is if they completely eliminate the V8 engine.

If the BMW M4 can be 3 inches shorter in length, have more interior space (especially in the back), be lighter overall, and only lose .4ft³ in trunk space; I'm sure Ford can trim here and there on the s650 without sacrificing too much.

 

[millhouse]

If the BMW M4 can be 3 inches shorter in length, have more interior space (especially in the back), be lighter overall, and only lose .4ft³ in trunk space; I'm sure Ford can trim here and there on the s650 without sacrificing too much.

The packaging requirement for an I6 and a dohc V8 are quite a bit different. I would assume that the M4’s I6 would be a bit slightly longer than the coyote…but keep in mind, some of that engine can be tucked in the area between the driver and passenger. The tall and wide DOHC V8 doesn’t have that luxury. Look at the engine bay of each, and you’ll see they are similar in distance from the front of the engine to the front of the car.

Again, this is all a packaging issue with V8 engines.

 

[mikeyjobu]

Considering most of the F150 weight savings is in the aluminum body and bed...and the mustang already has some aluminum components, I wouldn't expect to save much more than 50-100lbs by going to an all aluminum body. More weight savings could certainly be had in changing some of the chassis components to aluminum however.

Keep in mind, the bigger the vehicle, the bigger the potential weight savings. The mustang is a hell of a lot smaller than an F150.

I think I'll be a dreamer, and be a little more optimistic -- but you're likely right. My thoughts go something like this: From the 12th gen F150 to the 13th gen F150, the weight loss was 750lbs from the top model. Understanding that the Mustang is a lot smaller vehicle, the capacity for weight loss is much smaller -- I'm not sure what the curb weights of the F150's are (north of 4000lbs for a stripped out short bed, versus ~3700 for a stripped out GT), so I might be way, way off. But let's say that the Mustang can only lose 375lbs, and lets further say that half of that savings was already realized in the '15 Mustang with the hood and fenders already being aluminum. That leaves 187.5 pounds of potential loss -- but who knows what other requirements will creep in between now and then.

 

[TomcatDriver]

The packaging requirement for an I6 and a dohc V8 are quite a bit different. I would assume that the M4’s I6 would be a bit slightly longer than the coyote…but keep in mind, some of that engine can be tucked in the area between the driver and passenger. The tall and wide DOHC V8 doesn’t have that luxury. Look at the engine bay of each, and you’ll see they are similar in distance from the front of the engine to the front of the car.

Again, this is all a packaging issue with V8 engines.

OK, go with the E90 series M3 with an admittedly slightly smaller 4.0 or 4.4L V8. It is shorter, but has a longer wheelbase and a couple hundred pounds lighter. There is definitely room to shed some lbs, shed a little overhang, push the wheels out to the corners and still have good crash performance. Just look at the Camaro with the bigger (but OHV) V8. About the same length as an S550 but longer wheelbase and lighter.

 

[millhouse]

I think I'll be a dreamer, and be a little more optimistic -- but you're likely right. My thoughts go something like this: From the 12th gen F150 to the 13th gen F150, the weight loss was 750lbs from the top model. Understanding that the Mustang is a lot smaller vehicle, the capacity for weight loss is much smaller -- I'm not sure what the curb weights of the F150's are (north of 4000lbs for a stripped out short bed, versus ~3700 for a stripped out GT), so I might be way, way off. But let's say that the Mustang can only lose 375lbs, and lets further say that half of that savings was already realized in the '15 Mustang with the hood and fenders already being aluminum. That leaves 187.5 pounds of potential loss -- but who knows what other requirements will creep in between now and then.

Really, weight loss is going to come down to cost. What good is a 3600lb mustang with a v8 if the base price is $50k?

OK, go with the E90 series M3 with an admittedly slightly smaller 4.0 or 4.4L V8. It is shorter, but has a longer wheelbase and a couple hundred pounds lighter. There is definitely room to shed some lbs, shed a little overhang, push the wheels out to the corners and still have good crash performance. Just look at the Camaro with the bigger (but OHV) V8. About the same length as an S550 but longer wheelbase and lighter.

The camaro is also less tall, has a smaller trunk and less rear legroom. Keep in mind, too….the camaro even with all of it’s aluminum bits and pieces is less than 100lbs lighter than the S550. We’re not talking about 200lbs here.

With that said, there is definitely room for the mustang to improve on weight in other areas.

As for the M3…I’ll concede. Perhaps some of the overhang is purely aesthetics….but in all honestly, I don’t think much of the weight on the mustang is coming from any overhangs.

 

[mikeyjobu]

Really, weight loss is going to come down to cost. What good is a 3600lb mustang with a v8 if the base price is $50k?





The camaro is also less tall, has a smaller trunk and less rear legroom. Keep in mind, too….the camaro even with all of it’s aluminum bits and pieces is less than 100lbs lighter than the S550. We’re not talking about 200lbs here.

With that said, there is definitely room for the mustang to improve on weight in other areas.

As for the M3…I’ll concede. Perhaps some of the overhang is purely aesthetics….but in all honestly, I don’t think much of the weight on the mustang is coming from any overhangs.

The difference in price between a base '18 Mustang, and a base '18 F150 is $1795 -- the base models share the same body in white as the top trims. I'm not sure how you get to a V8 Mustang starting at $50k -- it seems a bit hyperbolic.

If the V8's stop selling, that's another discussion entirely -- that may be happening in the truck market already. If the F-series doesn't have a V8 option, economies of scale won't permit the Mustang to either - that's an entirely different discussion.

 

[millhouse]

The difference in price between a base '18 Mustang, and a base '18 F150 is $1795 -- the base models share the same body in white as the top trims. I'm not sure how you get to a base Mustang starting at $50k -- it seems a bit hyperbolic.

The price was hypothetical. What good does dramatically decreasing the weight of the mustang if the costs associated with it would likely dramatically increase the price.

 

[mikeyjobu]

The price was hypothetical. What good does dramatically decreasing the weight of the mustang if the costs associated with it would likely dramatically increase the price.

It does no good. But I'm not seeing that scenario.

 

[millhouse]

It does no good. But I'm not seeing that scenario.

There is one reason currently why the mustang isn't lighter...and it's cost.

 

[mikeyjobu]

There is one reason currently why the mustang isn't lighter...and it's cost.

Improvements must be made... Now that Ford has a fleet vehicle that uses lightweight materials, economies of scale may bring the cost within reach of the Mustang. If there aren't improvements, the Mustang will die.

 

[Conedodger]

Low hanging fruit for weight savings.

Suspension: Control arms, brake rotors, calipers, wheels, subframes
Body: Doors, glass, bumper bars. Aluminum doors, thinner glass
Engine: Flywheel and clutch assembly.
Drivetrain: Third member

The Mustang could be 3" narrower and have a 3" shorter wheel base easily. By going to a smaller front spring coils you can create the width you need in the engine bay for the wide heads on the coyote.

Put the battery in the trunk like all BMW's

 

[Ebm]

.

Low hanging fruit for weight savings.

Suspension: Control arms, brake rotors, calipers, wheels, subframes
Body: Doors, glass, bumper bars. Aluminum doors, thinner glass
Engine: Flywheel and clutch assembly.
Drivetrain: Third member

The Mustang could be 3" narrower and have a 3" shorter wheel base easily. By going to a smaller front spring coils you can create the width you need in the engine bay for the wide heads on the coyote.

Put the battery in the trunk like all BMW's

Dude... But everything is bigger in Texas, I mean Michigan.

 

[mikeyjobu]

Low hanging fruit for weight savings.

Suspension: Control arms, brake rotors, calipers, wheels, subframes
Body: Doors, glass, bumper bars. Aluminum doors, thinner glass
Engine: Flywheel and clutch assembly.
Drivetrain: Third member

The Mustang could be 3" narrower and have a 3" shorter wheel base easily. By going to a smaller front spring coils you can create the width you need in the engine bay for the wide heads on the coyote.

Put the battery in the trunk like all BMW's

Would we want the wheelbase to be that much shorter? Or have the track that much narrower? How much stability would be lost?

 

[millhouse]

Improvements must be made... Now that Ford has a fleet vehicle that uses lightweight materials, economies of scale may bring the cost within reach of the Mustang. If there aren't improvements, the Mustang will die.

Why would the mustang die? It's sales are linked far more to it's styling and nameplate than it is it's weight and performance.

And again, they are already using quite a bit more aluminum than in the past...and are only ~75lbs heavier than the camaro.

Low hanging fruit for weight savings.

Suspension: Control arms, brake rotors, calipers, wheels, subframes
Body: Doors, glass, bumper bars. Aluminum doors, thinner glass
Engine: Flywheel and clutch assembly.
Drivetrain: Third member

The Mustang could be 3" narrower and have a 3" shorter wheel base easily. By going to a smaller front spring coils you can create the width you need in the engine bay for the wide heads on the coyote.

Put the battery in the trunk like all BMW's

Again, packaging and federal crash standards prohibit this. The size of the mustang isn't arbitrary. :headbonk:

Sponsored