2018 Mustang Manual vs. Auto--MotorTrend

[Grimace427]

youporn vs pornhub? Hint...they're the same company. :lol::cheers:

That's some unique trivia knowledge you have there, Nick. :lol:

Sponsored

 

[2018OFPP1?2]

*fans flames*

nice try troll. have a seat before you fall off your tricycle.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Nailed it.

yes.. change my mind.. lol

We established that driving a manual automatically makes you a pro driver and engine braking is useless and will destroy your car.

All my gearboxes imploded, caught fire, jumped out of the car, and buried themselves. Five times. Each. Didn't yours?

Little disapointed this isn't up to 500 posts yet! Ford still sells an automatic & manual.

Bump.

 

[Norm Peterson]

NO, we are talking about using engine braking instead of using your brakes to slow down the car to a complete stop. Since I gave an exact scenario which sparked this, you don't get to change the goal posts. 80mphs to zero mph and eventually coming to a complete stop, such as a highway off ramp.

Engine braking was first mentioned in this post, where using engine braking only to slow the car down to a complete stop was never implied (let alone specifically stated).

My first contribution to the matter of engine braking was here.

Attempting to limit the discussion to engine braking only for slowing to a [near] stop seems to be your attempt at moving the goalposts away from the general sense the engine braking part of this discussion had been taking. That happened about a week after the engine braking subtopic got started (here's you, here).

Do a thread-level word search on "engine braking" for yourself if you think I'm making any of this up.

Nobody is talking about coasting either.

Except that during coasting (clutch engaged in a MT, AT not in 'N') you're getting engine braking whether you realize it or not, whether you want it or not

One would have to downshift more than a few times to engine brake a car down below 10mph.

Of course. That's why you aren't going to find anybody who does so in anything resembling normal driving on the street or on the track (though different reasons are involved). The only exceptions I can think of for doing what you're saying here involve partial or complete hydraulic failure of the service brake system where you need any help you can find to get slowed/stopped.


Norm

 

[sigintel]

Lol lolol
*bump*

 

[2018OFPP1?2]

The award for civility in the face of futility goes to Norm.

 

[Jimmy G]

Time for a new controversy, this engine braking one has run it's distance. I'd like to reintroduce left foot braking (in an auto) into the discussion.

I've been doing this for twenty something years. Accelerate from a stop with my left foot on the brake. Yes it causes a bees penis of additional wear on my brakes, but since I don't use them to stop because I engine brake, I've got heaps of pad material to spare!

Why do this? Well (for one) it creates confusion in the mind of the driver behind you, and that confusion focuses the mind. A focused mind will be less likely to rear end you if you have to stop in a hurry (ie: taking off behind someone at a green light, only to have them brake suddenly for some reason). Two, in the scenario above, you're already on the brakes when the guy in front stops suddenly, so you're less likely to plow into him. Three, it's great to drag the brake when reversing. You take your foot off the accelerator....you stop stone cold. No lag while you get across to the brake pedal, and no accidentally missing it because you're twisted around looking behind you. Kid runs out behind you...boom, stopped.

Takes practice, but it's great. Get on it, it's free .

 

[thehunterooo]

Little disapointed this isn't up to 500 posts yet! Ford still sells an automatic & manual.

Ill do my part.

Auto > Manual

 

[TexasRebel]

:clap2:

Thanks, but backlash also refers to loading-up of the backside of gears... and correct, in use they are made to withstand that, but not designed to be used as a wear item, instead of brakes.

In all your techno babble, did you forget to read where engineers acknowledge that it isn't beneficial unless you have components specifically designed for constant negative load.

Go look at actual gears that are cut in a manual transmission.. (Go ahead we will wait). They are DESIGNED optimally for load, wear and heat to be on the load-bearing side, not the backside. (You only covered heat, ergo oil)

Again, nobody is talking about IF gears are able to withstand it, that still doesn't make negative loading of a transmissions gears optimal, or even beneficial in slowing down a car.


Specially when there is something already designed and engineering for the exact same thing... your brakes. Otherwise you are essentially saying the most effective way to slow down your car is engine braking... and I am laughing at your for trying to uphold that logic... and going the long way to do it.

You mean these teeth were heat treated differently on each side?
I must be half-assing my job if I didn't know that technology existed.;)

 

[pietran30]

This is my new favorite threadopcorn:

 

[2018OFPP1?2]

Time for a new controversy, this engine braking one has run it's distance. I'd like to reintroduce left foot braking (in an auto) into the discussion.

I've been doing this for twenty something years. Accelerate from a stop with my left foot on the brake. Yes it causes a bees penis of additional wear on my brakes, but since I don't use them to stop because I engine brake, I've got heaps of pad material to spare!

Why do this? Well (for one) it creates confusion in the mind of the driver behind you, and that confusion focuses the mind. A focused mind will be less likely to rear end you if you have to stop in a hurry (ie: taking off behind someone at a green light, only to have them brake suddenly for some reason). Two, in the scenario above, you're already on the brakes when the guy in front stops suddenly, so you're less likely to plow into him. Three, it's great to drag the brake when reversing. You take your foot off the accelerator....you stop stone cold. No lag while you get across to the brake pedal, and no accidentally missing it because you're twisted around looking behind you. Kid runs out behind you...boom, stopped.

Takes practice, but it's great. Get on it, it's free .

Another benefit is you'll already have perfected the technique, so when you're 80 and your reaction time is measured in days, it won't be a problem.

 

[w3rkn]

nice try troll.. have a seat before you fall off your tricycle.

well not sure if youre familiar with high ways or if you stay under your rock.
i never stated you were coming up to a stop, frankly you dont know until youre at least partly down the exit. you might need to speed back up to merge or maybe stop if there is too much traffic.
you may need throttle if you leave it in 6th you will lug the engine if apply throttle at to slow a speed. So you keep your Rpms in a usable range so if you need the throttle youre not suddenly trying to shift from neutral to an appropriate gear.
none of this even matters to the point of if it causes extra wear on the engine or not..

we know people do it when "carving corners" or maybe having a spirited drive. its used and it serves a purpose. I am not sure who or when it was proposed that someone is coming to a complete stop using no brakes.

you are trying to attack 2 different points..
1. does it cause wear
2. whats the purpose
im debating the wear aspect. purpose you can go ask all the pro racers..

Please read back through this whole thread. You will see you are changing stories and scenarios to win an argument with me. Thus trolling.

I have remained steadfast on a specific scenario to illustrate a few points (How one can use a manual differently than an auto & how manual driver differ in their style). If you want to change the situation and point, then a different set of variables come into play.

As such, given how you are responding, you are not asking such questions in earnest, you are changing the goal posts because you think this discussion is a joke, thus giggles.

If you want to change a given scenario, then state why and also why someone would do what they are doing in that situation, then ask me and others YOUR question. Otherwise you are just trolling.


I engine brake too... specially when on the track.

Though I do not engine brake will driving in public, because there is zero need to slow my car down in such a manner, because in those situation I have zero need to be back on the throttle instantly, or need to have the engine engaged. Also, there is no need to keep the car's "balance" mid corner using engine braking either, because that is nth degree stuff, that norm can talk your legs off about... or anyone who drive the Nurb.

None of that stuff comes into play on American roads, that is racing. If you want to learn about such things, or why they are done/beneficial, this sub-forum is not the place, it takes years to learn how to back-off the throttle and use your engine to brake the car without unsettling it on the track.


Again, not a point within this discussion, because nobody drives like that in public...




Secondly, nobody here is talking about EXCESSIVE WEAR. Not one time have I mentioned excessive wear, I sad additional wear. If your engine is off, it suffers zero wear, while if it is running... it is not suffering excessive wear, only more/additional wear than being off. Again, more than..

Understand..? More wear, or additional wear doesn't mean excessive, it just mean more than...

Hence, when a Driver forces a car to engine brake, (instead of just using the brakes), you are inducing additional wear on all driverline components, when it is unnecessary.

You are arguing with yourself, using rhetorical questions that nobody has provided. Which is a form of trolling.




Thirdly, brakes are a wear item.

And why the A10 doesn't have full lock up (dragging the engine along) when you are coasting or coming to a stop. The A10 engine brakes at a certain threshold, because engineers know how to protect an engine and the car's driverline components.

The A10 "free wheels" and makes the drivers use their brakes, unless you are using paddle shifters... even then, the A10's torque converter eats up most of that, not the engine. Because once again, brakes are a wear item and Manufacturers expect you to use them when slowing your car down... not the engine.

 

[TexasRebel]

...even then, the A10's torque converter eats up most of that, not the engine. Because once again, brakes are a wear item and Manufacturers expect you to use them when slowing your car down... not the engine.

do what now?

Should we get into how a torque converter works, the two shafts it couples, and Newton's Third Law?

 

[TexasRebel]

Maybe the folks at JVS can explain it better.

While not completely apples to apples (oranges to tangerines would be an appropriate analogy), the main difference is the presence of a butterfly valve in the throttle body of a gasoline engine. The Jacobs brake includes additional slowing power by dumping air compressed to much higher pressures straight to atmosphere, while the gasoline engine is just a starving air pump.

 

[w3rkn]

You mean these teeth were heat treated differently on each side?
I must be half-assing my job if I didn't know that technology existed.;)

I assume you are trying to be facetious.

The point you are trying to make, is moot. It is a matter of using those gear's backside, instead of braking. So what again is the point of causing additional wearing the backside of those gears, instead of using the brakes..?

Additional, what about all the components that are effected when you are running negative rpms..? Ring & pinions...?

Just because..? Or because you eventually like sloppage…?



Additionally, You are not on a race team, who rebuilds your transmission for each race and have sponsors to pay for it all, so what the point of tepee'ing your gears..? & VROOOOooooom'ing your engine... and all of it's driverline again...?

To further my argument, gears are not a end-user wear item, brakes are. You can do a brake job in 45minutes. I understand if you lease and you really don't care about the car, or it's components longevity... then it is easy to commit to not caring.


I am not saying engine braking will ruin anything, I am saying having a driving style that you use engine braking all the time excessively (instead of using your brakes), will cause additional wear on your engine and driverline components.

 

[w3rkn]

Maybe the folks at JVS can explain it better.

While not completely apples to apples (oranges to tangerines would be an appropriate analogy), the main difference is the presence of a butterfly valve in the throttle body of a gasoline engine. The Jacobs brake includes additional slowing power by dumping air compressed to much higher pressures straight to atmosphere, while the gasoline engine is just a starving air pump.

That is a truck engine specifically designed for trucking environment… which helps control the stopping of heavy TRUCKS.

You are talking in principal...




I know how, what engine braking does and is. But a SEMI TRUCK has how many front brakes..? the same as any car... so it needs a controllable engine braking system.

And that video shows exactly that, designed for a specific hauling truck.

:clap2:

Sponsored