I agree. I think both cars are Stellar and amazing what they do for their price bracket. Really boils down to what you prefer in a car
Mmmmm, food for thought purchase... I see there are a lot of 2016 GT350's to choose from hanging around from last year, even some R's.
Totally agree. The Shelby offers everything I wanted in a car if I could not have a 991.2 GT3. That car is cost prohibitive. While as a performance car the Camaro is fine but it misses the mark for my taste. I dislike the exterior and flat hate the dash design as well as not caring for the small block engines exhaust note. I'm not even sure that most of us here that own Shelby's would cross shop the Chevy's. They are fine cars just different.
Hey mdmoore23, thanks for coming over to my place last night as I really enjoyed your company and also your outstanding 2017 ZL1.
Woah. Well then.
They said "From the driver’s seat, the ZL1 is almost a luxury car.". That is what I was referring to when I said that the ZL1 had more of a luxury car feel. I personally didn't think that was elevating it. If anything I think they meant it negatively. And I certainly wasn't mentioning it to give the ZL1 a compliment. When I said the R had more of a Muscle Car feel, I was repeating what they were saying except I must've gotten "Muscle Car" and "Sports Car" mixed up and said the wrong one. But these terms get thrown around and interchanged soo often that it is very easy to mix it up. But in any case, that is what they thought of both cars and that is why they preferred the R over the ZL1. If someone is looking for a "Sports Car" feel and wants the higher revs for extreme cornering, then the R or even the standard GT350 will give you that. The ZL1 won't. So it really comes down to what each individual would want in a car. Getting around a lap faster is fine. But since none of us are doing this for money, a faster time means nothing if it is in a car you can't enjoy. Especially a $60,000 car. Regardless of the car, you'd be misreable if you spent that kind of money and didn't enjoy the feel of it. Which is why I agree with the owners in their choice of the R over a ZL1. Because they bought it to enjoy it. If you enjoy the R but instead spend money on a ZL1 hoping the performance will sway you then that is a waste of money and you'll be disappointed. And of course there is much more to the R than just a high revving engine. I just mentioned that to make a point.
Thanks for the kind words. You are definitely one of the more stand up car enthusiasts that I've met. I have great respect for your opinion on cars, as it's obvious you have experienced some of the best. Our meeting last night reinforced what's really great about this era. The "pony car" doesn't have to be defended with quotes like "good for the price" anymore. What Chevy and Ford are producing today on the performance front is just good. There are no excuses needed anymore, in my opinion. Anyone not willing to do what we did, and share these great machines, is losing out. This thread has gone off track at times, but I truly enjoy a car debate. We all want our cars to win just like our sports teams. I can honestly say that I can see why the GT350 has a following, just from riding in your Boss. While I will pretty much always choose the forced induction car, I understand the appeal of what Ford has brought to market. Probably my second favorite car was NA. I had a 2008 Z06 a few years ago, and revving that 427 to 7000 rpm was very riveting. I won't be satisfied until I get a ride in an R though. I wanna see what all the fuss is about.Hey mdmoore23, thanks for coming over to my place last night as I really enjoyed your company and also your outstanding 2017 ZL1.
As I mentioned to you last night my favorite color of cars has and always will be Red and Black and when you showed up last night with your Red beast I was quite impressed.
I was also very impressed with the fit/finish and the interior of your car along with those outstanding looking wheels. The ride was better than I expected and I really enjoyed the seats in your car as well.
With 650 HP of course I expected your car to be fast and when you launched your ZL1 with the 10 speed automatic from a dead stop I could tell that this was a low 11 second/~120+ MPH car in the quarter mile. Very impressive acceleration and the ride quality was better than I expected as well.
Would I buy a new ZL1 based on the great ride last night along with experiencing better fit and finish etc. than I expected, probably not as I have been buying Blue Oval automobiles since the 1960's with my first car being a 1967 Cougar and have built up long standing relationships with many Ford dealerships along with numerous friends in Dearborn and Flat Rock.
Being an old school guy long standing relationships mean a lot to me therefore it would take pretty much a miracle for me to move away from the Ford brand.
Straight line your car is a beast and certainly much powerful than my R model but I would expect that my R model would be superior on a road course especially when it comes to braking, steering and handling.
As I mentioned to you last night I had previously owned a few new generation GT500 cars from 2008MY and 2009MY and once I drove my first Boss 302 in early 2011 I immediately got rid of the GT500 cars and moved over to Boss 302's and in particular the Laguna Seca model. The GT350/GT350R's have taken performance to another level but still love the Boss cars just as much.
Each to their own but I much prefer a NA HP automobile to a FI HP automobile and no matter how fast the new GT500 may be I will have no interest in a new GT500 but the ~48,000 that bought the 8MY's of the GT500 will probably be all over the new GT500 and good for them and for the FMC.
Having said all that I totally understand why you chose to buy your ZL1 and for many good reasons. You have an outstanding automobile especially for someone so young and exactly half of my age.
Looking forward to seeing you at the next Cars and Coffee and hope that you enjoyed the ride in my Pilot Production Boss 302 last night as they are pretty cool cars as well.
It's interesting that the "Pony Car" wars never really got going until General Motors came out with the Camaro and Firebird some 50 years ago with the 1967 Camaro and 1967 Firebird.
:cheers:It's interesting that the "Pony Car" wars never really got going until General Motors came out with the Camaro and Firebird some 50 years ago with the 1967 Camaro and 1967 Firebird.
IMO if it wasn't for the 1967 Camaro Z28 being produced we probably would not have had a 1969/1970 Boss 302 so thanks GM for that!
Yes, the Plymouth Barracuda was the very first Pony Car produced (Barracuda came out ~2 weeks earlier than the Mustang) but it was Ford and GM that has really duked it out over the last 50 years when it came to the Pony Car Wars.
I was brought up in a single parent environment so we had very little money but I had a cousin who's Father bought him in high school a 1967 Firebird Sprint convertible that came with an OHC 6 cylinder engine and was equipped with a 4 barrel Quadrajet carb and a 4 speed tranny. I was in heaven when I rode in my cousin's car and what a great Pony Car back in the day.
When we first rode in your ZL1 last night it really hit home with me as to how much the Mustang and Camaro have evolved over the 5 or 6 years.
It was not long ago (2009) that the new generation Boss 302 was given full approval from the Ford executive to proceed with the internal code name being "Project 747" which was a tribute to Alan Mulally who had previously come from Boeing and with the Boeing 747 aircraft debuting in 1969 just like the original Boss 302 thus "Project 747" was launched.
The 2012 Boss 302 that you rode in last night was assembled back in October 2010 with the Coyote engine for that car being built in late July 2010. Obviously both the engine and car were pre production units and it was interesting to see how much advancement in engineering has taken place between your 2017 ZL1 and my 2012 Boss 302 over the last ~6 years..
That takes us to your 2017 ZL1 and the tremendous strides that GM has taken with respect to not only a very powerful engine but all other power train aspects including that outstanding 10 speed automatic transmission.
Let's just say that these 2 cars were developed just 6 years apart, can you imagine what we could expect in another 6 years from the Pony Car Wars assuming that the internal combustion engine is still alive and well in the year 2023??
See you at Cars and Coffee very soon and I will arrange for you to take a rip in a 2016 or 2017 R model and promise you that you will be very impressed no matter who is doing the driving!!
What I like is that there is something for everyone these days when it comes to cars. If you want a straight line monster then theres the Hellcat. If you want extreme cornering and high revs then you have the GT350/GT350R. If you want something that does well all around then you have the ZL1. And of course there are others like the Z06, GTR, Viper, and others. I say this because despite your particular tastes and preferences, the ride in the ZL1 impressed you. Even if you would never care to own one you still enjoyed it. Same with ZL1 owners who experience the GT350R. Even if it isn't their cup of tea as far as ownership, I feel that most would enjoy the car. Hellcat as well. And all this really shows how each of these cars cater to different types.It's interesting that the "Pony Car" wars never really got going until General Motors came out with the Camaro and Firebird some 50 years ago with the 1967 Camaro and 1967 Firebird.
IMO if it wasn't for the 1967 Camaro Z28 being produced we probably would not have had a 1969/1970 Boss 302 so thanks GM for that!
Yes, the Plymouth Barracuda was the very first Pony Car produced (Barracuda came out ~2 weeks earlier than the Mustang) but it was Ford and GM that has really duked it out over the last 50 years when it came to the Pony Car Wars.
I was brought up in a single parent environment so we had very little money but I had a cousin who's Father bought him in high school a 1967 Firebird Sprint convertible that came with an OHC 6 cylinder engine and was equipped with a 4 barrel Quadrajet carb and a 4 speed tranny. I was in heaven when I rode in my cousin's car and what a great Pony Car back in the day.
When we first rode in your ZL1 last night it really hit home with me as to how much the Mustang and Camaro have evolved over the 5 or 6 years.
It was not long ago (2009) that the new generation Boss 302 was given full approval from the Ford executive to proceed with the internal code name being "Project 747" which was a tribute to Alan Mulally who had previously come from Boeing and with the Boeing 747 aircraft debuting in 1969 just like the original Boss 302 thus "Project 747" was launched.
The 2012 Boss 302 that you rode in last night was assembled back in October 2010 with the Coyote engine for that car being built in late July 2010. Obviously both the engine and car were pre production units and it was interesting to see how much advancement in engineering has taken place between your 2017 ZL1 and my 2012 Boss 302 over the last ~6 years..
That takes us to your 2017 ZL1 and the tremendous strides that GM has taken with respect to not only a very powerful engine but all other power train aspects including that outstanding 10 speed automatic transmission.
Let's just say that these 2 cars were developed just 6 years apart, can you imagine what we could expect in another 6 years from the Pony Car Wars assuming that the internal combustion engine is still alive and well in the year 2023??
See you at Cars and Coffee very soon and I will arrange for you to take a rip in a 2016 or 2017 R model and promise you that you will be very impressed no matter who is doing the driving!!
I'm probably an oddball in that I don't think that the car needs any more power than it has. More power could be fun, and especially on a track where it can be used, but for street use I think the ~7.0lbs/hp ratio is near ideal. Hell even a little less (think last gen Cayman GTS) most reviewers said it was near perfect and often brought up the "how much more sports car do you really need"?While I generally agree, I do find it funny that in this day and age 526 hp is a deficit
I'm a young'un (33) and I remember when 400hp was a big freakin' deal. Hell, my '10 Camaro had that much and I and many others were FREAKING OUT about it. That was supercharged V8 hp not that long ago.
While I generally agree, I do find it funny that in this day and age 526 hp is a deficit
I'm a young'un (33) and I remember when 400hp was a big freakin' deal. Hell, my '10 Camaro had that much and I and many others were FREAKING OUT about it. That was supercharged V8 hp not that long ago.
I feel that we're gonna start seeing the top dogs having 650 minimum and the SS/GT models will be around 450-500 minimum. These cars have come soo far and really are pushing limits more than ever before. I mean, really, compared to 707 and 808/840 in the Dodge vehicles...along with the Trackhawk coming out with 707 as well, by comparison even the 650 on the ZL1 seems low. It just makes me wonder where we'll be in 10-15 years from now. Considering that 10 years ago the GT had 315 hp and the GT500 had 550. Now we have NA engines making almost that much.
With the current Ford Performance crate motors of 500+ HP, it is already there ready to go. It only goes up..
Ten years ago the GT500 was only 500hp (2007-2009). The 2010 MY brought 540hp. 2011/2012 got a bump to 550hp and in '13/'14 it was 662hp.