2017 CHEVROLET CAMARO ZL1 VS. 2017 FORD MUSTANG SHELBY GT350R: THE FOREVER WAR

[4V Mayhem]

You absolutely do not have to answer to me, I'm not your boss... but it does seem strange that you threw a hissy fit at me, and then answered the questions voluntarily. :doh:

And I don't have hurt feelings there champ, I just prefer not to have animosity towards others, and when something happens I attempt to make things right. You had been crying for pages and pages about everyone attacking you, with I defending you in case your memory has failed, so your comments are a little ironic. You wanted everyone else to appease your "hurt feelings", yet you seem to have a distinct issue with me in particular for reasons I don't understand that you seem completely unwilling to discuss.

Word.

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[Norm Peterson]

Just some crate motors are race only. But if you read what you posted, it will only violate laws where cars have state inspection, hence it can be installed.

Technically it's still a violation of Federal anti-tampering (unapproved emissions-related part), whether you get caught doing it or not. Periodic State inspection is only a means of determining whether tampering has taken place. Roadside spot-checks by a DMV would be another (NJ at least used to employ this method as well).


Norm

 

[roygriffin2020]

I find it very interesting that since you have owned some very cool cars in the past such as an M3's, GT500's or your new ZL1 and after having owned all of these great cars you proceed to tell all of us that you are not a snob but because the rest of us that have owned one or all of these same great cars as well that we are all "snobs" tells us much about yourself!

I have owned a number of M cars as well and a number of new generation GT500's but certainly do not consider myself a snob and resent the fact that you consider myself or all of my R model buddies a snob or part of an elite group.

For you to suggest to me as an "R" owner and any of my "R" owner friends (and I have many R owner friends) that we are all snobs and have snob appeal is absolutely disgusting.

Obviously you have not owned or driven an R model and to suggest to the rest of us R owners that the only difference between your ZL1 and an R model is a high revving motor just speaks to your ignorance.

Thanks to "mdmoore" I had the opportunity to take a ride in his new 2017 ZL1 and with all due respect to him and his new ride I am in total agreement with the Motor Trend assessment which says this when comparing the ZL1 and the GT350R!

"The GT350R sports one of the best-feeling front ends I've had the privilege of experiencing. It's simply excellent. This Shelby's shifter shifts better, the engine feels better (who wouldn't take an 8,250-rpm redline over a 6,500-rpm limit?), the brake pedal feels better, and the car is sportier in every way. The R is just more fun to drive."

Trust me "I am not big time" by any means but just an older automotive enthusiast who just happens to have enjoyed and experienced many HP cars over the last ~50 years and understands how good the new GT350/GT350R's are compared to any other new generation Pony Car such as the Camaro ZL1 or Dodge Challenger with the comparison not even close.

;)

I didn't single anyone out on my general observations. Don't take it so personal. Geez us. Lighten up.

 

[Hack]

I didn't single anyone out on my general observations. Don't take it so personal. Geez us. Lighten up.

So you're saying it's his fault and he misinterpreted what you said. You are not apologizing.

I'm not surprised.

 

[DrumReaper]

What do you expect from a Yota truck guy on a GT350 site stating that he's a professional driver but can't claim where or who for?... for all we know - and I could really care less cause if he drives like he talks he's absolutely clueless to where the apex is - he could be a driver's ed instructor, or a UPS driver, or simply a taxi cab operator... they're all "professional drivers".

 

[Zitrosounds]

GUYS GUYS!!! The ZL1 and the 1LE are faster!!! YAY!!! The R is the better car it seems. The reasons why are subjective, true. However! The majority of automobile journalists and publications are in agreements that the R is magical. The thing with sports cars, which the ZL1 is not (IMO), is it is all about FEEL!!!!!!! look at history and the cars that have that magical feel. There are many more powerful, faster cars but at the end it's about feel. The biggest problem the ZL1 has, if you can call it that, is the lump in the front impairs it's handling (due to weight) feels heavy according to Pobst.

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/road-trips/corvette-z06-vs-mustang-gt350r-vs-viper-acr#15
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/rivals-porsche-gt3-rs-vs-ford-mustang-gt350r-vs-dodge-viper-acr/

 

[DrumReaper]

GUYS GUYS!!! The ZL1 and the 1LE are faster!!! YAY!!! The R is the better car it seems. The reasons why are subjective, true. However! The majority of automobile journalists and publications are in agreements that the R is magical. The thing with sports cars, which the ZL1 is not (IMO), is it is all about FEEL!!!!!!! look at history and the cars that have that magical feel. There are many more powerful, faster cars but at the end it's about feel. The biggest problem the ZL1 has, if you can call it that, is the lump in the front impairs it's handling (due to weight) feels heavy according to Pobst.

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/road-trips/corvette-z06-vs-mustang-gt350r-vs-viper-acr#15
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/rivals-porsche-gt3-rs-vs-ford-mustang-gt350r-vs-dodge-viper-acr/

Dude, you're making too much sense... and for that you are absolutely crazy. :headbonk:

 

[Zitrosounds]

This one is a good one as well. GT350R chosen over a Huracan and a AMG GT S. It is a very simple formula!

[ame]

 

[Norm Peterson]

. . . It [the Voodoo] is a high revving motor over the ZL1, but so is the 5.2 Aluminator and it has even more horsepower. So wouldn't that make the GT with all of the same suspension goodies (I know from the windshield forward stuff) and tires, would that not make it a "special" car? It would handle, rev, turn in, so close to the GT350 without the cost and should I say "Curb appeal" since you don't like the other word.

You'd probably be looking at pricing midway between a non-Aluminator GT and a GT350, plus a little something for the difference in cost between the TR3650 and the MT82 transmissions.

Assuming that emissions-legality could be established, I suppose it'd be at least a little "special", but since it would not have as sharp a focus on its road course potential it would not have the same 'character'. Standard and optional GT comfort and convenience features would see to it that an Aluminator-engined GT would have a somewhat more mainstream air about it even if performance differences were made negligible.

I don't see any 'snob appeal' with respect to the 'R'. Just a very different focus from the rest of the Mustang lineup and what the popular perception of what the Mustang has been about for most of its existence. And very much welcome, in much the same way as the Camaro SS/1LE (5th and 6th gens both) and the 5th gen Z/28. I guess if having a long-standing die-hard road course outlook suggests 'snob' to you, there isn't anything I'll be able to do about it except agree to disagree.


On edit, I re-read the T article and one of the things that popped out this time was that the ZL1 was described as being "too docile". That goes to character rather than actual measured performance, and yes, that's one of those "subjectives".


Norm

 

[H6G]

What do you expect from a Yota truck guy on a GT350 site stating that he's a professional driver but can't claim where or who for?... for all we know - and I could really care less cause if he drives like he talks he's absolutely clueless to where the apex is - he could be a driver's ed instructor, or a UPS driver, or simply a taxi cab operator... they're all "professional drivers".

For all we know, Griff might be a 'professional' Uber driver.....

 

[H6G]

This one is a good one as well. GT350R chosen over a Huracan and a AMG GT S. It is a very simple formula!

GT350R came very close to taking the title of “Best Driver’s Car” in Motor Trend's article, battling its way to the top of a 12-car field only to lose out to the $187k-plus McLaren 570S.

Yes indeed.... a very simple formula.

 

[Caballus]

This one is a good one as well. GT350R chosen over a Huracan and a AMG GT S. It is a very simple formula!

Awesome video, but I thought they said if they could have just one it would be the AMG GT S...not that the R didn't hold it's own "and in some cases exceed the ability" of the other two. Just the fact that it's in the same category is laudable.

 

[roygriffin2020]

I finally watched the H2H on the ZL1 vs GT350R. The worst head to head I have ever seen. I thought I was watching the Three Stooges or the Lucy Show. They have completely lost my respect for any kind of ratings. Worthless. What a joke on both cars. Paid actors trying for ratings. I will not believe much of what they say from now on.

 

[J_Maher_AMG]

You'd probably be looking at pricing midway between a non-Aluminator GT and a GT350, plus a little something for the difference in cost between the TR3650 and the MT82 transmissions.

Assuming that emissions-legality could be established, I suppose it'd be at least a little "special", but since it would not have as sharp a focus on its road course potential it would not have the same 'character'. Standard and optional GT comfort and convenience features would see to it that an Aluminator-engined GT would have a somewhat more mainstream air about it even if performance differences were made negligible.

I don't see any 'snob appeal' with respect to the 'R'. Just a very different focus from the rest of the Mustang lineup and what the popular perception of what the Mustang has been about for most of its existence. And very much welcome, in much the same way as the Camaro SS/1LE (5th and 6th gens both) and the 5th gen Z/28. I guess if having a long-standing die-hard road course outlook suggests 'snob' to you, there isn't anything I'll be able to do about it except agree to disagree.


On edit, I re-read the T article and one of the things that popped out this time was that the ZL1 was described as being "too docile". That goes to character rather than actual measured performance, and yes, that's one of those "subjectives".


Norm

When you consider the Aluminator's price tag is $19,999 from Ford Performance's own website, add the price of a GT, and you're within $5,000 of a GT350... unless ol Roy here spins his story and decides to get a used 5.0 or an ol Foxbody :lol:

 

[mdmoore23]

GUYS GUYS!!! The ZL1 and the 1LE are faster!!! YAY!!! The R is the better car it seems. The reasons why are subjective, true. However! The majority of automobile journalists and publications are in agreements that the R is magical. The thing with sports cars, which the ZL1 is not (IMO), is it is all about FEEL!!!!!!! look at history and the cars that have that magical feel. There are many more powerful, faster cars but at the end it's about feel. The biggest problem the ZL1 has, if you can call it that, is the lump in the front impairs it's handling (due to weight) feels heavy according to Pobst.

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/road-trips/corvette-z06-vs-mustang-gt350r-vs-viper-acr#15
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/rivals-porsche-gt3-rs-vs-ford-mustang-gt350r-vs-dodge-viper-acr/

Impair is a strong word, being that it actually handles just as good as or better than the R in some metrics. Pobst just said it didn't feel as good as the R. But they also regarded the R as having one of the best feeling front ends out there.

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