2021 MUSTANG (S650) - 7th Generation Mustang Confirmed

DickR · Dec 1, 2017

mikeyjobu said:
I expect it will be somewhere between SN95 and S550 size-wise, and it will hopefully get the F150 aluminum chassis treatment. Design-wise, I look at the facelift for 2018, and keep thinking about the 4 gen Camaro versus the 5th gen. I hope they keep more Mustang elements in the design than they did with the Foxbody. I do think the S650 may have a lot of the same design elements as an Aston Martin -- that wouldn't be so bad. Does anyone know who is on the design team, and what other projects they have worked on? I do like the retro rendering -- the last on Topnotch posted -- I could really go for that! More S197 than S197, more S550 than S550.

Much as I would like a smaller mustang again (we like the size of our 97 GT compared to our 2015 GT) how do you think Ford could shrink the S650 from S550 dimensions and still "fit" American buyers while keeping "sporty 2 door coupe" styling and having enough room for performance size wheels, tires, brakes, etc? Give up on the back seat and/or trunk, at least in hybrid versions?

Patio208 · Dec 1, 2017

I want to see Ford do what Porshe does aesthetically. A Porshe just looks like a Porshe no matter the model year but they still look cutting edge. They don't throw out what works for the sake of change. Chevy also does this well with the Corvette. On the flip side, Chevy F'd up their attempt to do the same with Camaro. It esentially is the same Transformers Camaro but with great bones underneath. I understand that Porshe is niche or rare vehicle and more imune to market presure and competition to constantly offer changes to move units.
Things like big wide grills, headlight gills, fastback silhouette, and tri bar tails should always be evident. We've had a good run since 2005 with Ford offering a modern take on the best Mustang DNA. I hope it keeps rolling.

millhouse · Dec 1, 2017

DickR said:
Much as I would like a smaller mustang again (we like the size of our 97 GT compared to our 2015 GT) how do you think Ford could shrink the S650 from S550 dimensions and still "fit" American buyers while keeping "sporty 2 door coupe" styling and having enough room for performance size wheels, tires, brakes, etc? Give up on the back seat and/or trunk, at least in hybrid versions?

Yeah, it's not getting smaller. There is a reason cars are bigger now than 20 years ago....and it's not just because of us fat Americans. Safety requirements and packaging pretty much dictate today's car sizes.

mikeyjobu · Dec 1, 2017

DickR said:
Much as I would like a smaller mustang again (we like the size of our 97 GT compared to our 2015 GT) how do you think Ford could shrink the S650 from S550 dimensions and still "fit" American buyers while keeping "sporty 2 door coupe" styling and having enough room for performance size wheels, tires, brakes, etc? Give up on the back seat and/or trunk, at least in hybrid versions?

A smaller, lighter car doesn't need as much tire -- but I think most S550's are lacking tire - I'm not suggesting it will be all the way down to SN95 proportions (but they had back seats too) -- I'm suggesting that it could split the difference in size -- the S500 is only slightly smaller than the S197, but it is smaller.

From Wikipedia:
Wheelbase 101.3 in (2,573 mm)[5] Length 1994-1998: 181.5 in (4,610 mm)[5]
1994-1998 Cobra: 182.5 in (4,636 mm)
1999–2004: 183.2 in (4,653 mm)
1999–2004 Cobra: 183.5 in (4,661 mm) Width 1994–98: 71.8 in (1,824 mm)
1999–2004: 73.1 in (1,857 mm) Height 1994–96 coupe: 52.9 in (1,344 mm) in
1997–98 coupe & Cobra convertible: 53.2 in (1,351 mm)
GT coupe, 1997–98 convertible & GT convertible: 53.4 in (1,356 mm) in
1994–96 GT convertible & Cobra: 53.3 in (1,354 mm)
1994–96 convertible: 53 in (1,346 mm)
1999–2004 coupe: 53.1 in (1,349 mm)
1999–2004 convertible & Cobra: 53.2 in (1,351 mm)
1999–2001 Cobra convertible: 53.3 in (1,354 mm)
Mach 1: 52.4 in (1,331 mm)
2002–04 SVT Cobra coupe: 52.5 in (1,334 mm)
2002–04 SVT Cobra convertible: 52.9 in (1,344 mm)

S550:
Wheelbase 107.1 in (2,720 mm) Length 188.3 in (4,784 mm) Width 75.4 in (1,916 mm) Height 54.4 in (1,381 mm) Curb weight 3,520–3,800 lb (1,600–1,720 kg)

I think they could find three inches off the rear overhang, keep the seats where they are, maybe still pull a half inch from the wheelbase, and up to an inch from the front overhangs then drop the car about a half inch by losing a little ground clearance -- keep the tracks front and rear where they are, and put nothing less than 255 wide tires on all trim levels, magnetic ride standard by the S650 mid-cycle refresh, keeping the car to about 3400 pounds with the techniques used on the F150...

millhouse · Dec 1, 2017

mikeyjobu said:
A smaller, lighter car doesn't need as much tire -- but I think most S550's are lacking tire - I'm not suggesting it will be all the way down to SN95 proportions (but they had back seats too) -- I'm suggesting that it could split the difference in size -- the S500 is only slightly smaller than the S197, but it is smaller.

From Wikipedia:
Wheelbase 101.3 in (2,573 mm)[5] Length 1994-1998: 181.5 in (4,610 mm)[5]
1994-1998 Cobra: 182.5 in (4,636 mm)
1999–2004: 183.2 in (4,653 mm)
1999–2004 Cobra: 183.5 in (4,661 mm) Width 1994–98: 71.8 in (1,824 mm)
1999–2004: 73.1 in (1,857 mm) Height 1994–96 coupe: 52.9 in (1,344 mm) in
1997–98 coupe & Cobra convertible: 53.2 in (1,351 mm)
GT coupe, 1997–98 convertible & GT convertible: 53.4 in (1,356 mm) in
1994–96 GT convertible & Cobra: 53.3 in (1,354 mm)
1994–96 convertible: 53 in (1,346 mm)
1999–2004 coupe: 53.1 in (1,349 mm)
1999–2004 convertible & Cobra: 53.2 in (1,351 mm)
1999–2001 Cobra convertible: 53.3 in (1,354 mm)
Mach 1: 52.4 in (1,331 mm)
2002–04 SVT Cobra coupe: 52.5 in (1,334 mm)
2002–04 SVT Cobra convertible: 52.9 in (1,344 mm)

S550:
Wheelbase 107.1 in (2,720 mm) Length 188.3 in (4,784 mm) Width 75.4 in (1,916 mm) Height 54.4 in (1,381 mm) Curb weight 3,520–3,800 lb (1,600–1,720 kg)

I think they could find three inches off the rear overhang, keep the seats where they are, maybe still pull a half inch from the wheelbase, and up to an inch from the front overhangs then drop the car about a half inch by losing a little ground clearance -- keep the tracks front and rear where they are, and put nothing less than 255 wide tires on all trim levels, magnetic ride standard by the S650 mid-cycle refresh, keeping the car to about 3400 pounds with the techniques used on the F150...

Again, not happening. There is a reason the camaro and mustang are very close in overall size. In order to have adequate crash protection for all occupants, the current sizes are not getting any smaller.

mikeyjobu · Dec 1, 2017

millhouse said:
Again, not happening. There is a reason the camaro and mustang are very close in overall size. In order to have adequate crash protection for all occupants, the current sizes are not getting any smaller.

We're only talking less than 6 inches of total length -- I'm sure they can find close to 3 inches somewhere. The wheelbase and tracks are needed for stability -- they shouldn't pull much there -- but they could pull an inch and a half from the rear overhang pretty easily -- it would sacrifice some trunk space, but it would still be practical.

millhouse · Dec 1, 2017

mikeyjobu said:
We're only talking less than 6 inches of total length -- I'm sure they can find close to 3 inches somewhere. The wheelbase and tracks are needed for stability -- they shouldn't pull much there -- but they could pull an inch and a half from the rear overhang pretty easily -- it would sacrifice some trunk space, but it would still be practical.

That overhang is there for a reason....it's not all aesthetics. The crumple zones incorporate that overhang for occupant protection.

And no, sacrificing trunk space does not need to be done. These cars aren't Miatas for petes sake. The only way these cars are getting any smaller is if they completely eliminate the V8 engine.

mikeyjobu · Dec 1, 2017

millhouse said:
That overhang is there for a reason....it's not all aesthetics. The crumple zones incorporate that overhang for occupant protection.

And no, sacrificing trunk space does not need to be done. These cars aren't Miatas for petes sake. The only way these cars are getting any smaller is if they completely eliminate the V8 engine.

Sure -- and nobody wants to see the demise of the V8. As far as crumple zones -- how does aluminum used in the F150 compare to the soft steel used in a lot of the bodywork? Maybe I expect to much from the full F150-ization effect. The fuel economy standards are also going to go up, so the weight will have to come down. I hope we never see a Mustang based on the Focus platform...

Hack · Dec 1, 2017

mikeyjobu said:
We're only talking less than 6 inches of total length -- I'm sure they can find close to 3 inches somewhere. The wheelbase and tracks are needed for stability -- they shouldn't pull much there -- but they could pull an inch and a half from the rear overhang pretty easily -- it would sacrifice some trunk space, but it would still be practical.

There's a ton of extra room in our cars. I hope they make them smaller and lighter as well.

Twin Turbo · Dec 1, 2017

As much as I lamented the demise of retro when Ford designed the S550, they made the right move in going modern, whilst still keeping an eye on the past.

This first one would be fantastic, if spun off the S197. It's looks a little like the Equus....and I could see this being done by the likes of the Ringbrothers or Mr Foose.....but it's not the direction Ford should take with S650. That car needs to appeal to a broader audience.

And that's where the second one wins for me. I think it has hints of the '71-'73 Mustang, especially with that full fastback....but with a thoroughly modern twist.

I love them both for different reasons

SVT-DADDY · Dec 1, 2017

Why make the car smaller? Switch the Chassis to aluminum and throw on some ligter wheels.

Boom everyone is happy!

Honesty if the car was any smaller I'd buy a Corvette. The Mustang is meant to be a Grand toruing car, not a sports car.

millhouse · Dec 1, 2017

mikeyjobu said:
Sure -- and nobody wants to see the demise of the V8. As far as crumple zones -- how does aluminum used in the F150 compare to the soft steel used in a lot of the bodywork? Maybe I expect to much from the full F150-ization effect. The fuel economy standards are also going to go up, so the weight will have to come down. I hope we never see a Mustang based on the Focus platform...

The current mustang has aluminum hood and front fenders. Most of the energy absorption however comes from the crumple zone in the front bumper and clip. The fenders and hood are there for looks and aero. Any lightweight additions from here on out will not come from making the car smaller, but from using lighter weight materials.

mikeyjobu · Dec 1, 2017

millhouse said:
The current mustang has aluminum hood and front fenders. Most of the energy absorption however comes from the crumple zone in the front bumper and clip. The fenders and hood are there for looks and aero. Any lightweight additions from here on out will not come from making the car smaller, but from using lighter weight materials.

I understand that to be the case for our current cars -- but what about the F150? Is that not on an aluminum unibody?

millhouse · Dec 1, 2017

mikeyjobu said:
I understand that to be the case for our current cars -- but what about the F150? Is that not on an aluminum unibody?

The F150 frame is still steel.

mikeyjobu · Dec 1, 2017

millhouse said:
The F150 frame is still steel.

Okay then -- so some theoretical S550 built with the F150 construction methods and materials might shave -- what's your best guess? One hundred pounds? Two? Could it be close to the three hundred I want it to be?

2021 MUSTANG (S650) - 7th Generation Mustang Confirmed

DickR

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Patio208

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millhouse

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SVT-DADDY

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