ADM on a GT350 is Not Illegal

unixadm · Mar 2, 2015

phunk said:
What is ADM?

Adjusted Dealer Markup (ADM)

DarthLepard · Mar 2, 2015

R 350 gt Donson said:
MSRP stands for; Manufactures SUGGESTED Retail Price, the key would is "suggested" guys it only a suggestion , and that's it. The is not going to be a law, and never will be. I hate them, especially if I had not found a dealer willing to work. The only way to get back at them is this; if you know of a dealer that charges ADM, simple when you are ready to buy a new Ford go in let them know your looking and then buy somewhere else and then go back and show them you were a real buyer and that because they charged an ADM you bought else where. But even this will probable not work, because sadly most dealers do not care about the few, or one (like our late and great Spock) lastly, we are forgetful and a forgivable people.

I am sure I am going to get crushed for this but I am a sales manager at a car dealership, not Ford but it's still the same universe.

While you are right, it is a SUGGESTED price recommended by the manufacturer, most manufacturers severely deter you from charging over that, as we call over sticker.

But it is a law of economics, lets say I am dealer A and I am getting only 2 GT350's allocated to me the first month and the next 4 months thereafter. If the market allows a dealer to charge over sticker they typically do so. While it may leave a sour taste in some peoples mouth (rightfully so) it still makes the most business sense to do so. You have to make gross when and where you can while maintaining a happy customer base. Otherwise the next time you come in to buy a family sedan for invoice we wouldn't be able to survive, even with holdbacks and other dealer incentives. It is all about the $$$ PRU (Per Retail Unit), you need the bigs with the smalls.

And I know there are people reading this saying well you are chasing away your own customers by doing so, don't be greedy, etc. But I have been doing this a long time, and a specialty vehicle that can bring over MSRP has a customer base that understands and typically doesn't hold any resentment, they know it is the market and have enough expendable cash to bend to market demands. And those who do get offended and refuse to buy isn't a "loyal" buyer to begin with. Because when that customer comes in to buy the family sedan and we offer $500 over invoice, he will be the first to show an offer from a dealer 45 minutes away offering invoice and asking if we can beat it. He won't care or remember whether we charged MSRP or above for a specialty vehicle. Not trying to be a jerk but that is how it works, I have years of market data to prove it

That being said, I personally don't think any consumer should pay over MSRP for a car, wait the market out and things will settle. But once again, the customers who tend to be in the category will pay extra to be the first at the car show with it, posting pictures on Facebook, etc and are perfectly fine with what they had to do so they could.

Evolvd · Mar 2, 2015

This horse is not only dead, it is now tenderized from all the beating. Lets just grind up the meat, make some dog food and move on to better discussions....

Pablo GT350 · Mar 4, 2015

DarthLepard said:
I am sure I am going to get crushed for this but I am a sales manager at a car dealership, not Ford but it's still the same universe.

While you are right, it is a SUGGESTED price recommended by the manufacturer, most manufacturers severely deter you from charging over that, as we call over sticker.

But it is a law of economics, lets say I am dealer A and I am getting only 2 GT350's allocated to me the first month and the next 4 months thereafter. If the market allows a dealer to charge over sticker they typically do so. While it may leave a sour taste in some peoples mouth (rightfully so) it still makes the most business sense to do so. You have to make gross when and where you can while maintaining a happy customer base. Otherwise the next time you come in to buy a family sedan for invoice we wouldn't be able to survive, even with holdbacks and other dealer incentives. It is all about the $$$ PRU (Per Retail Unit), you need the bigs with the smalls.

And I know there are people reading this saying well you are chasing away your own customers by doing so, don't be greedy, etc. But I have been doing this a long time, and a specialty vehicle that can bring over MSRP has a customer base that understands and typically doesn't hold any resentment, they know it is the market and have enough expendable cash to bend to market demands. And those who do get offended and refuse to buy isn't a "loyal" buyer to begin with. Because when that customer comes in to buy the family sedan and we offer $500 over invoice, he will be the first to show an offer from a dealer 45 minutes away offering invoice and asking if we can beat it. He won't care or remember whether we charged MSRP or above for a specialty vehicle. Not trying to be a jerk but that is how it works, I have years of market data to prove it

That being said, I personally don't think any consumer should pay over MSRP for a car, wait the market out and things will settle. But once again, the customers who tend to be in the category will pay extra to be the first at the car show with it, posting pictures on Facebook, etc and are perfectly fine with what they had to do so they could.

Thankyou for your courage!

activeGT · Mar 4, 2015

DarthLepard said:
I am sure I am going to get crushed for this but I am a sales manager at a car dealership, not Ford but it's still the same universe.

And I know there are people reading this saying well you are chasing away your own customers by doing so, don't be greedy, etc. But I have been doing this a long time, and a specialty vehicle that can bring over MSRP has a customer base that understands and typically doesn't hold any resentment, they know it is the market and have enough expendable cash to bend to market demands. And those who do get offended and refuse to buy isn't a "loyal" buyer to begin with. Because when that customer comes in to buy the family sedan and we offer $500 over invoice, he will be the first to show an offer from a dealer 45 minutes away offering invoice and asking if we can beat it. He won't care or remember whether we charged MSRP or above for a specialty vehicle. Not trying to be a jerk but that is how it works, I have years of market data to prove it

That is exactly what I said elsewhere. Some people can afford the next "nice" thing and some can't. And then some people are just cheap.

Hack · Mar 4, 2015

DarthLepard said:
I am sure I am going to get crushed for this but I am a sales manager at a car dealership, not Ford but it's still the same universe.

While you are right, it is a SUGGESTED price recommended by the manufacturer, most manufacturers severely deter you from charging over that, as we call over sticker.

But it is a law of economics, lets say I am dealer A and I am getting only 2 GT350's allocated to me the first month and the next 4 months thereafter. If the market allows a dealer to charge over sticker they typically do so. While it may leave a sour taste in some peoples mouth (rightfully so) it still makes the most business sense to do so. You have to make gross when and where you can while maintaining a happy customer base. Otherwise the next time you come in to buy a family sedan for invoice we wouldn't be able to survive, even with holdbacks and other dealer incentives. It is all about the $$$ PRU (Per Retail Unit), you need the bigs with the smalls.

And I know there are people reading this saying well you are chasing away your own customers by doing so, don't be greedy, etc. But I have been doing this a long time, and a specialty vehicle that can bring over MSRP has a customer base that understands and typically doesn't hold any resentment, they know it is the market and have enough expendable cash to bend to market demands. And those who do get offended and refuse to buy isn't a "loyal" buyer to begin with. Because when that customer comes in to buy the family sedan and we offer $500 over invoice, he will be the first to show an offer from a dealer 45 minutes away offering invoice and asking if we can beat it. He won't care or remember whether we charged MSRP or above for a specialty vehicle. Not trying to be a jerk but that is how it works, I have years of market data to prove it

That being said, I personally don't think any consumer should pay over MSRP for a car, wait the market out and things will settle. But once again, the customers who tend to be in the category will pay extra to be the first at the car show with it, posting pictures on Facebook, etc and are perfectly fine with what they had to do so they could.

Well said. I agree.

Cruzinaround · Mar 13, 2015

OH5GT 2 S550 said:
Actually you did say it was illegal...below is your quote from the closed thread.

"That's your opinion...The example is a reflection of how ADM's operate. Therefore entirely relevant....and According to the FCC... Illegal."

The FCC reference was speaking to AT&T's and Verizon's overbilling practices which are illegal... And set a precedence for a push to make ADM's an illegal practice this would be something that the FTC would need to take on.

OH5GT 2 S550 · Mar 13, 2015

Cruzinaround said:
The FCC reference was speaking to AT&T's and Verizon's overbilling practices which are illegal... And set a precedence for a push to make ADM's an illegal practice this would be something that the FTC would need to take on.

Listen bud, we are both saying the same thing, we don't like and won't pay an ADM. Only difference is, I see why dealerships charge them and understand it, you don't. It's all good, doesn't mean either of us are bad people, nor dealerships that charge them.

Cruzinaround · Mar 13, 2015

My frustration is with people who see past the information presented and try to make up an argument by misquoting others. Or by taking one single word out of the context of an entire paragraph.

Rated R · Mar 13, 2015

I make it illegal for me to shop at dealers who charge ADM...;)

Cruzinaround · Mar 13, 2015

FCA’s U.S. head of communications, Gualberto Ranieri, wrote a blog post on Friday that warns customers of the practice is unscrupulous and could be illegal, but did not name any of the dealerships that have it concerned.

I agree with your thinking Randy and apparently ....So Does Fiat/Chrysler.

Jackie Chiles · Mar 13, 2015

Cruzinaround said:
I agree with your thinking Randy and apparently ....So Does Fiat/Chrysler.

FCA also neglected to name any statutes that make ADMs illegal, preferring to be ambiguous:

"We believe such a practice may constitute a breach of the Dealer’s Sales and Service Agreement with FCA US LLC and a violation of other applicable laws."

I also agree with Randy's post.

I wish ADMs were prohibited by law, but they are not, at least as far as I can determine.

Waldorf · Mar 13, 2015

I've never paid MSRP for a new car. I WILL for this one if I can order it the way I want it without an ADM. So far, no luck. Hearing $7500.00. With the rumor today that 5000 a year for 5 model years... maybe I'll wait for the "second tier". Around here, in 2013, dealers were actually "dealing" on Boss Mustangs. ADM disappeared. Supply vs. demand.

I believe that if you want to describe our society with an adjective... we live in a "capitalistic" society. I contacted one dealer who said he's only getting one, and that it cannot be a customer order. He'll probably try to auction it to the highest bidder. Hope he gets 100 grand for it. But it won't be any of my money. I certainly can't blame them for trying. In the meantime... I'll just sit on the bench and watch the game. P.T. Barnum supposedly said, "There's a sucker born every minute." I'll exclude myself from that quote.

Capitalism is based on incentive. When incentive turns to greed... the system corrects itself... nobody buys. Or at least the the folks who P.T. Barnum WASN'T referring to.

That is all...

w3rkn · Mar 13, 2015

Remember, ADM is not a price, but a service. That is how it becomes legal..

That is, if the dealer include the details of their service. If not... You can walk out paying no ADM.

Otherwise, GM, Ford would have to reimburse you for the ADM.( Bait and switch per advertising)

Mustang1260 · Mar 13, 2015

Where do you guys get this stuff? I"m assuming the same web site that tells you income taxes are unconstitutional. AND I hate it but it is legal-dealer can set any price they want.

Have I ever paid it- Nope. But will I for a GT350R.... At 57 I have no interest in waiting for a deal-I just want the damn
car. NOW. WHITE, full deletes, blue/red stripes. Pics on the net driving me nuts.

ADM on a GT350 is Not Illegal

unixadm

H1711

DarthLepard

Well-Known Member

Evolvd

Instigator

Pablo GT350

Well-Known Member

activeGT

Well-Known Member

Hack

Well-Known Member

Cruzinaround

Banned

OH5GT 2 S550

Well-Known Member

Cruzinaround

Banned

Rated R

Well-Known Member

Cruzinaround

Banned

Jackie Chiles

Active Member

Waldorf

Old School

w3rkn

Well-Known Member

Mustang1260

Well-Known Member