0 degrees of rear camber?

BULL1TT · Oct 5, 2015

I am planning on lowering my car with either the BMR performance springs or the drag springs. I see most who lowered only get the rear back to 1.5-2 degrees of negative camber. Can it be adjusted closer to zero than that? I would like the rear to be at 0 degrees or as close as possible. I haven't really looked closely at the rear adjustment on this car. Is camber adjusted on a slotted hole? Can that hole be opened up to gain some adjustment?

Whiskey11 · Oct 5, 2015

BULL1TT said:
I am planning on lowering my car with either the BMR performance springs or the drag springs. I see most who lowered only get the rear back to 1.5-2 degrees of negative camber. Can it be adjusted closer to zero than that? I would like the rear to be at 0 degrees or as close as possible. I haven't really looked closely at the rear adjustment on this car. Is camber adjusted on a slotted hole? Can that hole be opened up to gain some adjustment?

Why? Please say drag racing... ohh please....

Zero camber is NOT ideal for anything... I don't know what the folk at BMR are doing for camber on their drag cars but I imagine it's probably not zero. You have to keep in mind that these cars are going to gain negative camber (go more negative) on squat so any setting you chose at zero is at best going to be temporary and it will adversely effect handling and road holding for any daily driving.

Simply put, zero camber is not ideal ANYWHERE on a car.

stoli · Oct 5, 2015

You can get to zero if you want to; it is a slotted hole.

kkakonn · Oct 8, 2015

Having 0 camber is definitely a no go, especially on a rwd car like ours. Imagine a pencil eraser pushed against a flat surface and moving it around, slides around pretty easily yeah? Now if you just tilted the pencil ever so slightly and tried pushing it in that direction, its much much much more grippy =]

phunk · Oct 9, 2015

I don't feel like getting into it right now, but let me just remind some of you that there are hundreds of thousands of cars running around with zero camber on a live axle and they include steering wheels because they manage to change direction without flipping over, and they are actually quite stable.

But if I ever find myself driving a pencil eraser, I'll be sure and keep it angled.

kkakonn · Oct 9, 2015

I guess some people have a difficult time understanding analogies. Tell me how a car with 0 degrees of camber will handle a sharp corner better than one that has negative camber?

phunk · Oct 9, 2015

kkakonn said:
I guess some people have a difficult time understanding analogies. Tell me how a car with 0 degrees of camber will handle a sharp corner better than one that has negative camber?

You are on your own to find supporting evidence to this, I'm not on board with the theory.

BMR Tech · Oct 9, 2015

FWIW, here is my current alignment on my personal car. ;)

I am a big fan to close to 0 camber out back.

Keep in mind, these cars gain negative camber quick out back....so even if you were at 0 camber, your outside tire will go negative on a hard corner....and the opposite tire may go a little positive.

IMO, -.75 to -1 is perfect.

I set mine to close to 0 simply because I want the most traction is a straight line, with the least amount of tire shake / wheel hop.

Whiskey11 · Oct 13, 2015

phunk said:
I don't feel like getting into it right now, but let me just remind some of you that there are hundreds of thousands of cars running around with zero camber on a live axle and they include steering wheels because they manage to change direction without flipping over, and they are actually quite stable.

But if I ever find myself driving a pencil eraser, I'll be sure and keep it angled.

I have yet to see a live axle that is perfectly zero in every alignment direction. My 2009's rear axle wasn't... I had -0.19º of total toe on mine and -.5 camber on the one end and -.3 something on the other IIRC.

Just because a car can change directions at 0º of camber doesn't mean it is smart. The modern radial tire requires some negative camber to work properly in a corner.

BMR Tech said:
FWIW, here is my current alignment on my personal car. ;)

I am a big fan to close to 0 camber out back.

Keep in mind, these cars gain negative camber quick out back....so even if you were at 0 camber, your outside tire will go negative on a hard corner....and the opposite tire may go a little positive.

IMO, -.75 to -1 is perfect.

I set mine to close to 0 simply because I want the most traction is a straight line, with the least amount of tire shake / wheel hop.

The rear suspension on these cars doesn't gain negative camber that fast... if they did I wouldn't be running -2.2º of camber out back and still seeing positive camber at full load:

Only reason to run 0 camber is for "launch" grip but you are still seeing some negative camber at full squat until BMR comes out with "zero gain" upper control arms...

Evo_Rob · Oct 13, 2015

What is the OEM alignment supposed to be? I don't remember the rears having much noticeable camber to begin with

Whiskey11 · Oct 13, 2015

Evo_Rob said:
What is the OEM alignment supposed to be? I don't remember the rears having much noticeable camber to begin with

IIRC it's like -1.8 stock. That's what mine was on my PP car anyway.

derieuz · Oct 13, 2015

OEM rear camber is -1.5 +- .25 i believe, with +.15 toe. You do not want 0 camber unless you are drag racing, your rear end will whip out a lot quicker with no camber out back, so if you are an inexperienced driver trying to take corners harder, i would not recommend it

Impulsed7 · Oct 13, 2015

Through 3 hard track events, this car needs more negative camber all around. Rear should probably be close to 2 degrees or so and front close to 3 if not more. I'd have to add a little and run, add a little and run to find the sweet spot though. So far I'm at 1.7 rear and 2.1 front, and trying to get more. I'm only wearing the outsides of all four tires, and pressures are sitting perfect for most events.

phunk · Oct 13, 2015

Whiskey11 said:
Just because a car can change directions at 0º of camber doesn't mean it is smart. The modern radial tire requires some negative camber to work properly in a corner.

It actually works just fine. I have done it, and I lived to tell! In fact, for regular ole street driving, you dont even notice a difference for that type of driving.

People can and will setup their IRS to focus its strengths for their intended purpose. Some people have a lot of money invested in the forward direction, and are willing to make the minor sacrifices in road handling to enjoy that money spent.

I find it surprising that someone who seems to have a basic understanding of the suspension system would perpetuate a goofy myth that zero camber is somehow dangerous. :doh: Even more surprising that in the same post you attach a photo of your own car demonstrating positive camber (surface relative) in a turn yet the car didnt wind up on its roof because of it. You believe that if your car had +2.2 degrees more baseline camber just before that photo was taken, that something terrible would have happened? What exactly would have happened?

Whiskey11 · Oct 14, 2015

phunk said:
It actually works just fine. I have done it, and I lived to tell! In fact, for regular ole street driving, you dont even notice a difference for that type of driving.

People can and will setup their IRS to focus its strengths for their intended purpose. Some people have a lot of money invested in the forward direction, and are willing to make the minor sacrifices in road handling to enjoy that money spent.

I find it surprising that someone who seems to have a basic understanding of the suspension system would perpetuate a goofy myth that zero camber is somehow dangerous. :doh: Even more surprising that in the same post you attach a photo of your own car demonstrating positive camber (surface relative) in a turn yet the car didnt wind up on its roof because of it. You believe that if your car had +2.2 degrees more baseline camber just before that photo was taken, that something terrible would have happened? What exactly would have happened?

Where did I say it was unsafe? Now stop trying to put words in my mouth. Just because something isn't smart doesn't necessarily mean it is unsafe. I think the small "gains" by "zeroing" camber for drag racing occasionally is going to be a negative for any daily driving. The rear of these cars is already real easy to break loose with any throttle input, no need to make that worse by zeroing out camber too.

0 degrees of rear camber?

BULL1TT

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Whiskey11

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stoli

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kkakonn

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phunk

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kkakonn

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phunk

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BMR Tech

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Whiskey11

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Evo_Rob

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derieuz

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Impulsed7

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phunk

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Whiskey11

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