Cooled seats not cooling

Well, finally having had some hot weather and long drives... it seems to me that it works sometimes - and others not... though it does seem dependent on the cabin temperature... and also depending on how much I move my back... seems I need to let it "breathe" a bit to allow the air to circulate?

Also had a look under the seat and it's just chock full of cables, harnesses and wiring... so not super surprised that it has a hard time getting air through/under

Quick follow up on my exhaust add on testing. Looks like it's a fail. It works when the unit is outside the seat, but once it's in the enclosed space it seems to trap too much heat and prevent the TED from cooling properly. I won't be pursuing it further. I'll go into more detail on my DIY thread.

While I had the passenger seat cover pulled up, I took a photo of the inside. The mesh that the cool air is supposed to be distributed through does go all the way down the seat. The mesh is behind a piece of foam but there's 4 holes in that foam where you can see it.

There is a portion in the center where there's no mesh. I roughly indicated in the photo where the blower port is and the mesh free area. The glued part might go all the way down the middle of the seat though. I need to do a more thorough investigation.

I'm not sure why the cold air doesn't spread throughout the seat better. In heat mode it seems to spread out quite well. Perhaps it's because the hot air in heat mode is a lot hotter than the cold air is cold in cool mode - makes it more easily perceivable.

Also note that this is the passenger seat. The driver's seat might be different because of the lumbar support. I don't have any other reason to open up my driver's seat, so I'll have to leave that to someone else to investigate.

OK guys heard I was being talked about so figured I would sign on. I think it is amazing that Darko66 came up with a DIY solution for pre-TSB cars. This issue has been a major problem for the F150 guys like me for a long time. (second thread link below dates back to 6/6/15 first one was ever earlier than that)
http://www.f150forum.com/f118/cooling-seats-issue-tsb-feedback-304154/index433/

The TSB that you have is in part due to the work that I did with Ford Seat Complete (engineering team at Ford) early in 2015. I always knew it would migrate over to the other lines and was curious how long it would take.

Here is what I know... The intake issue that Ford approached with the SOCK was for one reason only (reduce localized heat on the rear of the seat). They did not and will not make an improvement to try and fix the lack of cooling as it does not impact the overall function of the vehicle (their words not mine).



This DIY is a much better solution than the SOCK as it can not be kinked or collapse like we have seen over on the F150 side of the world.

Here is where I disagree with Darko66. The exhaust air is a MAJOR issue! The TED produces hot exhaust air when in cooling mode. The HOT air has no where to go and will get trapped inside the seat. As the unit runs for a long time it will continue to build the internal seat temp higher and higher and continue to reduce the efficency of the system. Eventually after long runs the TED will start pumping out warm air instead of cool air.

What did I do? Well I approached the hot exhaust first instead of the intake. My goal was to get the hot air out. How do I know the hot air needs out? This FLIR image.




To be clear Darko66 has a great product for you guys without the TSB. I have reached out to him and given him kudos and even bought one from him. I am not and will not get in his way. I am also not pushing anything I sell on this forum as I am not a vendor and it is not fair to Darko66. I would be happy to do a co-op of sorts with Darko66 as he knows the Mustang far better than I do. Darko66 if this bothers you or gets in your way please PM me and I can edit. You paid as a sponsor so I want to respect that.

-Tim
F150 SeatGuru

SeatGuru said:

Here is what I know... The intake issue that Ford approached with the SOCK was for one reason only (reduce localized heat on the rear of the seat). They did not and will not make an improvement to try and fix the lack of cooling as it does not impact the overall function of the vehicle (their words not mine).

Click to expand...

Ford... what a garbage company.

SeatGuru said:

To be clear Darko66 has a great product for you guys without the TSB. I have reached out to him and given him kudos and even bought one from him. I am not and will not get in his way. I am also not pushing anything I sell on this forum as I am not a vendor and it is not fair to Darko66. I would be happy to do a co-op of sorts with Darko66 as he knows the Mustang far better than I do. Darko66 if this bothers you or gets in your way please PM me and I can edit. You paid as a sponsor so I want to respect that.

-Tim
F150 SeatGuru

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All feedback and commentary encouraged. As indicated earlier, my goal was to create a simple and inexpensive solution that improved performance. It's not a perfect solution and perhaps not a complete one, so any efforts on your part to create improved solutions either on your own or in conjunction with me would be greatly appreciated.

I will comment on my DIY thread regarding the exhaust issue and try to explain my experience and why positive improvement can be achieved with an intake only attachment.

Took my car to dealer for a few things and asked to have the TSB done.

That ended up being nothing but a disastrous two-day ordeal (they did give me a loaner though) and improvement is very small. I also clearly am not going to ever go back to Ford dealer for service again unless there is something that I can't do myself or it is something major that is still on warranty.
Time to look at the DYI solution here in this thread....

kz said:

Took my car to dealer for a few things and asked to have the TSB done.

That ended up being nothing but a disastrous two-day ordeal (they did give me a loaner though) and improvement is very small. I also clearly am not going to ever go back to Ford dealer for service again unless there is something that I can't do myself or it is something major that is still on warranty.
Time to look at the DYI solution here in this thread....

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does your back still get hot?

cooling mod and Katzkin leather

Rich of So Cal said:

Hey if it makes the back of the seat cool instead of hot, I'll be satisfied. I have mine, just waiting for some new Katzkins and a few free days to do both projects at the same time.

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OK, well today was the first time I got to try out the cooling mod. I also installed new Katzkin leather. A few caveats:

today is still pretty cool, so far. not the usual heat of summer that drove me to get this mod.

the Katzkins have special foam added for the cooling seat system and it appears to be more porous than the stock covers. however, Katzkin does NOT put in anything for the exhaust. Inside it is similar, with a layer that has big circles cut into in. but not any solid plastic sheet, and no cloth/breathable material for exhaust. I called them about lack of exhaust and their answer was: the exhaust will find it's way out and no-one has complained so far.

So with those differences in mind, I found that the bottom seat cooled rather well, but as others have already said, I didn't feel much in the upper area. Maybe a slight cooling. At least not heating up. But the real test will be when the hot weather returns.

Oh yes, and I was driving with the top down, so it was coolish outside air going through. I am still optimistic that I will feel a difference when it gets hot again.

jvandy50 said:

does your back still get hot?

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I don't think it ever really did - not that that I could notice. But there clearly isn't cooling I can notice either.

Pre-TSB I used to be able to feel very faint feeling of cooling somewhere middle of a seat back height - and that was not regular. Now it seems like it is gone but only have been driving for a day after getting car back.

so nothing new here? shouldnt waste my time because the design sucks and there is still no fix?

tubes working

So I put the top down this morning and again this afternoon. My climate control is set on auto, so it came on with ac going both times. I turned on the seat cooler and lo and behold...I could definitely feel slight cooling on my back. Now, I was wearing a light t-shirt, which made it easier to feel. I also put my hand on the seat, where my back touches, and could even feel a very light current coming through.

Maybe the Katzkin seat material has opened up a bit more as it has dried out. But, at any rate, definitely an improvement. Oh, and it was about 93 degrees outside, at the end. :clap2::clap2::clap2:

Rich of So Cal said:

So I put the top down this morning and again this afternoon. My climate control is set on auto, so it came on with ac going both times. I turned on the seat cooler and lo and behold...I could definitely feel slight cooling on my back. Now, I was wearing a light t-shirt, which made it easier to feel. I also put my hand on the seat, where my back touches, and could even feel a very light current coming through.

Maybe the Katzkin seat material has opened up a bit more as it has dried out. But, at any rate, definitely an improvement. Oh, and it was about 93 degrees outside, at the end. :clap2::clap2::clap2:

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The big issue was what was the temperature of the TED at the beginning.

The car was presumably at a relatively low temperature overnight. The TED's were probably below 70F when you turned the car on. Contrast this with perhaps 130F getting into a car that's been out in the sun midday.

ctlaw said:

The big issue was what was the temperature of the TED at the beginning.

The car was presumably at a relatively low temperature overnight. The TED's were probably below 70F when you turned the car on. Contrast this with perhaps 130F getting into a car that's been out in the sun midday.

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I understand what you are saying, but this is better than it was doing before in the same conditions...and I could NEVER feel air current coming through at any temp. Also, I closed up the car and parked in the sun for a couple hours before the second drive. In the past putting the top down or leaving it up did no good, even in milder weather...at least as far as the back blower was concerned.

This is at least a difference I can finally feel.

Was it on for more than 15 minutes? That's when the problem of the seatback heating up begins.

Cueball said:

Was it on for more than 15 minutes? That's when the problem of the seatback heating up begins.

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Yes. Close to half an hour per trip. Same route I have tested it on before.

Look, this wasn't a scientific experiment. Just a pleasant, observed difference. But, I should note, that on other days I have driven much further, and in greater heat, and did not notice any heating of the back while the cooler was activated. That's a definite improvement. This was a bonus. And again, I think the holes in the Katzkin upholstery have opened up more, since I first put them on. I noticed extra foam "dots" coming out of them from the beginning. That would account for the improved air currents. Before I had to put my ear against the seat to tell if the fans were running. Now I can feel it...barely, but it's there.