Z06 Redline is a jab at the Voodoo…

460Fred

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I don't think any real performance information has come out yet. I'm looking forward to seeing how good the engine is as well. The last Z06 was good on paper but had a LOT of issues in the real world.
Wouldn’t it be cool if something advertised as carrying two sets of golf clubs spanks others on track, at half the cost.
BTW….Specifications are coming out in the real world. YouTube videos are popping up.

 

m3incorp

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I think we are talking about two different things based on your original comment between the two.
Don't get me wrong, I definitely love the GT3 as a track focused car. Keep in mind, Chevy is attempting to sell the Z06 to those who may want to track it but also to the majority who won't track it.

Having owned the last C7 Z06, please enlighten me on what issues you observed with it? ( I am not saying it didn't have issues, but I think those mostly affected those who chose to track the automatics) Keep in mind, the goal was to sell to the masses, not just those who bought it only to track it (Mine was 7 speed, not the auto) . Let's get real, if Chevy built the Z06 as a track purposed car, then they had better have another Corvette in-line with the Porsche Turbo, as you say, to keep the Corvette alive.....see that is what Porsche did. :)

I am on a long list to purchase the Z06 BUT have no intent to track it, so think it might just fit the bill for what I would/will do with it.

I also believe it will it be fun to find out how the new platform performs.



They are in the business of selling cars (and magazines). Definitely the Z06 has many positive things about it. If you want a car with an automatic that is a great cruiser and makes awesome noises, the Z06 fits the bill for sure.

The GT3 is very track focused and is a driver's car at 3,100 lbs. The Corvette's focus is making sure two sets of golf clubs fit in the trunk. The sporty/track stuff is a lower priority. The Z06 probably matches up better with a 911 Turbo or something - less track focused, heavier, more of a cruiser, but still very fast if you nail it on an on-ramp.

It will be fun to find out over time how good the platform really is. I don't think any real performance information has come out yet. I'm looking forward to seeing how good the engine is as well. The last Z06 was good on paper but had a LOT of issues in the real world.
 

Hack

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Wouldn’t it be cool if something advertised as carrying two sets of golf clubs spanks others on track, at half the cost.
BTW….Specifications are coming out in the real world. YouTube videos are popping up.
I've seen videos about the C8 Z06, but none of them included track performance comparisons yet. It's possible I missed something. Please link it up if you have some reviews showing track use with times compared to other cars.

I think we are talking about two different things based on your original comment between the two.
Don't get me wrong, I definitely love the GT3 as a track focused car. Keep in mind, Chevy is attempting to sell the Z06 to those who may want to track it but also to the majority who won't track it.

Having owned the last C7 Z06, please enlighten me on what issues you observed with it? ( I am not saying it didn't have issues, but I think those mostly affected those who chose to track the automatics) Keep in mind, the goal was to sell to the masses, not just those who bought it only to track it (Mine was 7 speed, not the auto) . Let's get real, if Chevy built the Z06 as a track purposed car, then they had better have another Corvette in-line with the Porsche Turbo, as you say, to keep the Corvette alive.....see that is what Porsche did. :)

I am on a long list to purchase the Z06 BUT have no intent to track it, so think it might just fit the bill for what I would/will do with it.

I also believe it will it be fun to find out how the new platform performs.
Yes I agree the Z06 is designed in such a way assuming the vast majority of buyers won't track it, whereas the GT3 less so. In a way it's too bad - something that could be so great is designed to sit in the garage and drive gently to C&C rather than having the owner enjoy the actual performance capabilities.

I didn't own a C7 Z06, but I saw the Randy Pobst drive where the car "was not right". He talks about it at 1:59 and a little after. He calls it "sick puppy" and "total dog". This was the car that GM chose to lend to him knowing he was going to track it.


Many of the C7 Z06s had trouble with overheating. Even people posted on here with their experiences with overheating one, it was occurring to quite a few of the cars. If you didn't use yours on track it probably wouldn't have been an issue. On the street, the car would be fine as the high temperatures would only come when the power was being used and not idling around in traffic.

One thing I didn't realize is that the C7 Z also had problems with bent rims, but that's the second major issue that comes up with a quick google search. I heard that owners had trouble getting the rims replaced under warranty. The rims were so fragile that GM would have gone broke if they replaced all the bent and damaged rims from the C7 Z06 and Grand Sport models. I was seriously interested in buying a C7 GS, but that was one of the significant concerns I had with the car. At the time I researched, many owners were advising others to plan that the wheels would have to be replaced with a better quality aftermarket unit.

Again, the wheels were probably only an issue for owners that drove their cars in a performance setting. So you may not have had an issue. I wasn't going to buy a Corvette and then not track it.
 

saleen367

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If you wanna hide your head in the sand and say Chevy wasn’t considering the Voodoo when they went FPC, that’s fine…

Because Ford went there first is enough to know that Chevy went there… It’s hard to deny the ability of the voodoo when it was used in the roadcourse cars. Everyone saw the success of that engine in that class.
Except for the fact that the road race (actual race team cars) did not use VooDoo engines. They used a cross plane crank version for durability.

Having said that, I totally agree with your point that Chevy is taking jabs at Ford at every turn and why shouldn't they? Marketing, however biased the ads are, bring in sales, so why wouldn't you make subtle references to the Voodoo downfalls?

In the end, we will see just how successful the Z06 is on the track and how durable it is. That could be the real pie in the face of Ford when all is said and done.
 

460Fred

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I haven’t seen any car to car comparisons on track. Just yesterday someone turned me on to the drag races and roll races you spoke of. I also found someone hitting the dyno in Dallas. This same kid will be tracking the car soon but a head to head comparison is unlikely.
Head to head comparisons with the same unbiased driver, same conditions and same track are pretty rare…I’ve yet to see one of those, with any car.
If GM had issues as you spoke, I cannot imagine them not correcting it with the C8. Heck Ford fixed the over heat issues in the GT350. Carbon wheels on the ZO6 upgrade package should be pretty solid from Carbon Revolution.
 


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Except for the fact that the road race (actual race team cars) did not use VooDoo engines. They used a cross plane crank version for durability.

Having said that, I totally agree with your point that Chevy is taking jabs at Ford at every turn and why shouldn't they? Marketing, however biased the ads are, bring in sales, so why wouldn't you make subtle references to the Voodoo downfalls?

In the end, we will see just how successful the Z06 is on the track and how durable it is. That could be the real pie in the face of Ford when all is said and done.
The race car teams used the Voodoo and won with it. After the Voodoo was restricted down enough that the other cars could keep up, the race car teams eventually just went to a Coyote. The Coyote still needed to be restricted, but not as much.

I haven’t seen any car to car comparisons on track. Just yesterday someone turned me on to the drag races and roll races you spoke of. I also found someone hitting the dyno in Dallas. This same kid will be tracking the car soon but a head to head comparison is unlikely.
Head to head comparisons with the same unbiased driver, same conditions and same track are pretty rare…I’ve yet to see one of those, with any car.
If GM had issues as you spoke, I cannot imagine them not correcting it with the C8. Heck Ford fixed the over heat issues in the GT350. Carbon wheels on the ZO6 upgrade package should be pretty solid from Carbon Revolution.
Car and Driver, Motortrend etc. do comparisons all the time on almost every new performance car. There even used to be a show called Head to Head where the entire premise was taking 2 or 3 cars and comparing them on the road and on track.

Performance Car of the Year and Best Driver's Car are what you should look up if you want some of this info. Also, even many YouTube channels such as Throttle House do track time comparisons.
 

460Fred

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The race car teams used the Voodoo and won with it. After the Voodoo was restricted down enough that the other cars could keep up, the race car teams eventually just went to a Coyote. The Coyote still needed to be restricted, but not as much.



Car and Driver, Motortrend etc. do comparisons all the time on almost every new performance car. There even used to be a show called Head to Head where the entire premise was taking 2 or 3 cars and comparing them on the road and on track.

Performance Car of the Year and Best Driver's Car are what you should look up if you want some of this info. Also, even many YouTube channels such as Throttle House do track time comparisons.
I’ll do more searches, thank you.
 

svttim

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The race car teams used the Voodoo and won with it. After the Voodoo was restricted down enough that the other cars could keep up, the race car teams eventually just went to a Coyote. The Coyote still needed to be restricted, but not as much.



Car and Driver, Motortrend etc. do comparisons all the time on almost every new performance car. There even used to be a show called Head to Head where the entire premise was taking 2 or 3 cars and comparing them on the road and on track.

Performance Car of the Year and Best Driver's Car are what you should look up if you want some of this info. Also, even many YouTube channels such as Throttle House do track time comparisons.
How does anyone on this forum not know about the 16 GT350 race cars
 

saleen367

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The race car teams used the Voodoo and won with it. After the Voodoo was restricted down enough that the other cars could keep up, the race car teams eventually just went to a Coyote. The Coyote still needed to be restricted, but not as much.
I stand corrected .... I was referring to the fact Ford moved on to the GT4 which did not have a voodoo. The GT350C dominated for just over a year in the IMSA Continental Tire SportsCar Challenge Series.
 

K4fxd

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The GT350C dominated for just over a year in the IMSA Continental Tire SportsCar Challenge Series.
I believe it was a maintenance nightmare. So the voodoo was replaced for cost reasons also.
 

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I believe it was a maintenance nightmare. So the voodoo was replaced for cost reasons also.
What I remember hearing is "it cost more to maintain than a Coyote", which is completely different from your mean and cruel words. :crying:

Obviously it's cheaper to run a Coyote. And with the engine being restricted down so much, the Coyote is an obvious choice as they are a dime a dozen comparitively.
 

K4fxd

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your mean and cruel words. :crying:
I have found that voodoo owners have very thin skin. :wink:

All the track attack GT350's had at least one engine change, many also had trans failures. Ford didn't want to put in the development time to damp the vibrations. Too bad it is a cool engine.

I don't remember hearing any of the Mach 1 track attack cars getting new engines. I know for sure that not all of them have or will.
 

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I was gifted a track session in my friend Gary Underwood’s historic 1967 Shelby Trans am #33 John mcolm Mustang. Gary set my rev limit to 6000 rpm and said it would last all day with no problems . With that in mind I set my rev limiter at 6100 on my 289 Comet Cyclone even though Cam research said it was good till 6600 .still safe at 315 rwhp for a real 289 . So my question is if I shift on a track day a little lower on my GT350R , could that be a little safer for reliability?

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m3incorp

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I am not trying to defend or go against what was said in the video. This was the first year of the C7 Z06 and maybe Randy felt the same throughtout it's lifetime of the C7 but I have a feeling that might not be what happened. I actually remember that video before I bought my car. We both agree that heating problems were an issue with those that tracked it.....guess what is one of the first things to be addressed when tracking our Mustangs...yep heat is everyones problem. Supercharge our cars and choose to track it and you will most likely agree. Bent wheels are for real...but it seems like right now you are searching for reasons to talk bad about the car. There are many who suffred bent wheels and many who didn't. I can't think of a car I've bought in the past 20 years where I didn't plan to change out the wheels for aftermarket before I bought the car. If you had bought that Grand Sport, you might have liked it. :) The million dollar question is do you track your current car or plan to track a car in the future? If the answer is yes, then I completely understand your issues with tracking a C8 Z06. If the answer is no.......well I won't bother to add any more to the response.

I guess I just see it as a waste of time to talk badly about cars I don't own or plan to own. I also wouldn't waste my time talking bad about how good or bad any car might be if tracked......if I never plan to track the car.

I have an open mind on the Z06, the same as I have with many other cars.

Let's call this rabbit hole discussion a draw :)


I've seen videos about the C8 Z06, but none of them included track performance comparisons yet. It's possible I missed something. Please link it up if you have some reviews showing track use with times compared to other cars.



Yes I agree the Z06 is designed in such a way assuming the vast majority of buyers won't track it, whereas the GT3 less so. In a way it's too bad - something that could be so great is designed to sit in the garage and drive gently to C&C rather than having the owner enjoy the actual performance capabilities.

I didn't own a C7 Z06, but I saw the Randy Pobst drive where the car "was not right". He talks about it at 1:59 and a little after. He calls it "sick puppy" and "total dog". This was the car that GM chose to lend to him knowing he was going to track it.


Many of the C7 Z06s had trouble with overheating. Even people posted on here with their experiences with overheating one, it was occurring to quite a few of the cars. If you didn't use yours on track it probably wouldn't have been an issue. On the street, the car would be fine as the high temperatures would only come when the power was being used and not idling around in traffic.

One thing I didn't realize is that the C7 Z also had problems with bent rims, but that's the second major issue that comes up with a quick google search. I heard that owners had trouble getting the rims replaced under warranty. The rims were so fragile that GM would have gone broke if they replaced all the bent and damaged rims from the C7 Z06 and Grand Sport models. I was seriously interested in buying a C7 GS, but that was one of the significant concerns I had with the car. At the time I researched, many owners were advising others to plan that the wheels would have to be replaced with a better quality aftermarket unit.

Again, the wheels were probably only an issue for owners that drove their cars in a performance setting. So you may not have had an issue. I wasn't going to buy a Corvette and then not track it.
 

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I have found that voodoo owners have very thin skin. :wink:

All the track attack GT350's had at least one engine change, many also had trans failures. Ford didn't want to put in the development time to damp the vibrations. Too bad it is a cool engine.

I don't remember hearing any of the Mach 1 track attack cars getting new engines. I know for sure that not all of them have or will.
If they run the Mach 1s for 5 years then that would be a good comparison.

I'm not surprised GT350s run on track 16,000 miles by people who had never been on track before eventually needed maintenance. I don't take that as a reliability knock. I remember when I took part in the GT350 track attack there were a few sections where you topped out 3rd gear. The instructors told us to hold the engine against the rev limiter in those areas rather than shifting. I did that and I'm sure most other people driving those cars did as well. They spent a lot of time with the engines spinning at 8,250 rpm.

I am not trying to defend or go against what was said in the video. This was the first year of the C7 Z06 and maybe Randy felt the same throughtout it's lifetime of the C7 but I have a feeling that might not be what happened. I actually remember that video before I bought my car. We both agree that heating problems were an issue with those that tracked it.....guess what is one of the first things to be addressed when tracking our Mustangs...yep heat is everyones problem. Supercharge our cars and choose to track it and you will most likely agree. Bent wheels are for real...but it seems like right now you are searching for reasons to talk bad about the car. There are many who suffred bent wheels and many who didn't. I can't think of a car I've bought in the past 20 years where I didn't plan to change out the wheels for aftermarket before I bought the car. If you had bought that Grand Sport, you might have liked it. :) The million dollar question is do you track your current car or plan to track a car in the future? If the answer is yes, then I completely understand your issues with tracking a C8 Z06. If the answer is no.......well I won't bother to add any more to the response.

I guess I just see it as a waste of time to talk badly about cars I don't own or plan to own. I also wouldn't waste my time talking bad about how good or bad any car might be if tracked......if I never plan to track the car.

I have an open mind on the Z06, the same as I have with many other cars.

Let's call this rabbit hole discussion a draw :)
I really was considering a C7 Grand Sport Corvette. I ended up buying a C5 Z06 instead because it was the last Corvette IMO that weighed a reasonable amount for a 2 seat sports car plus had an engine without major documented issues.

If I hadn't driven them and researched extensively, I wouldn't have much to say. And I have a lot more negative thoughts about Corvettes and especially C6 and C7s that I'm not sharing here. I'm sure many people own and love them and I would edit my thoughts if I posted on a Corvette forum. Here on a Ford forum I feel it's acceptable for me to be honest.

To be fair, I do believe GM worked hard on the C7 Z06 and I believe the heat issues were mostly solved before the end of production. I'm not sure whether they fixed the early customer cars or not.

And to address your rabbit hole comment - hopefully the new Z06 engine will prove to be better than the engine from the C7 Z or the C6 LS7.
 
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