XDI High Pressure Fuel Pump upgrade

Zrussian13

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Nice write up. I've been considering going this route in the future. I want to maintain the ability to take road trips with out worry of finding e85 or overhearing the fuel pump. Good to hear you got solid results with just the pump upgrade.
 

Decible

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Big DI injectors and Pumps = Big power gains.

End
of
Discussion

They just hurt the wallet. (Ive made 1,216 rwhp on DI only... its awesome)
Do they have upgraded injectors for DI GT? I’ve only ever seen the pump. I know there is a kit for the EB with pump and injectors.
 
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engineermike

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Do they have upgraded injectors for DI GT? I’ve only ever seen the pump. I know there is a kit for the EB with pump and injectors.
XDI definitely offers bigger injectors and they were used in both of the turbo cars that were discussed elsewhere in the forum. I haven't found the injector limit yet, though, and I don't have a ton of pump capacity left. I think the injectors would be needed right around the time the HPFP45 runs out of capacity on the stock cam lobe. That said, I've compared and it appears as though the 3.5 and 2.3 EB use the same basic injector and they have more capacity. If I run out of injector I might try that, as they are fairly inexpensive.
 

Decible

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XDI definitely offers bigger injectors and they were used in both of the turbo cars that were discussed elsewhere in the forum. I haven't found the injector limit yet, though, and I don't have a ton of pump capacity left. I think the injectors would be needed right around the time the HPFP45 runs out of capacity on the stock cam lobe. That said, I've compared and it appears as though the 3.5 and 2.3 EB use the same basic injector and they have more capacity. If I run out of injector I might try that, as they are fairly inexpensive.
Is the spray pattern the same? I know you can burn one up real fast if the spray pattern and if the injector is installed wrong. I’m surprised more companies don’t produce pumps.
 


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engineermike

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I don’t know about the spray pattern. They are both the same ev14 body. I also think that the mustang doesn’t rely on the pattern as much as the ecoboost motors. At least the stock motor does most or all of its injecting on the intake stroke and the charge is largely homogenous by the time spark happens. Mine is injecting pretty far into the compression stroke but wouldn’t be if I had bigger gdi injectors.

Fwiw the sae tech articles on injection timing seemed to think soot formation was the biggest problem with late eoi.
 
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bankyf

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Do I understand correctly that in theory, the larger DI pump will potentially allow you to run e85 on forced induction without going to a return style fuel system?
 
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engineermike

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Do I understand correctly that in theory, the larger DI pump will potentially allow you to run e85 on forced induction without going to a return style fuel system?
I could argue that either way. On one hand, the low pressure “lift pump”(s) still has to flow 100% of the total fuel flow whether it goes to the port injectors or the gdi pump. On the other hand, even if the lift pump pressure fell below set-point, the gdi pump would still flow the same amount unless it cavitated. The gdi pump pulling down the lift pump pressure would hurt port injector flow and potentially trigger a code.

Also consider that the biggest xdi pump will support about 675 hp by itself on gasoline. When you run it at 90% gdi like stock, that number goes to about 750 or a little more. If you run e85, that number drops to about 515. So, your low pressure side would need to support 400 hp or so and be relied upon pretty heavily.
 

ProChargerTECH

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Also consider that the biggest xdi pump will support about 675 hp by itself on gasoline.
Are you able to maintain 90-100% blend at the 20 degrees of timing and 675hp?
 
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engineermike

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Are you able to maintain 90-100% blend at the 20 degrees of timing and 675hp?
The short answer is, yes, I am maintaining 90% gdi at 20 deg spark timing and 10 psi boost, guessing closer to 800 hp at the crank.

My comment about 675 is if you were running 100% gdi for the purpose of comparing to e85.
 
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engineermike

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I raised my boost 2 psi (3.75" pulley, Whipple 3.0) and found the limit of the XDI pump/stock injector combination. But this comes with a few caveats.

I could no longer maintain 90% GDI blend in two scenarios:
1. Ambient 73 deg, COT enrichment ON, 7000 rpm, 1.65 load. On that run, GDI blend fell to 83% min.
2. Ambient 57 deg, COT enrichment OFF, 6900 rpm, 1.68 load. On that run, GDI blend fell to 80% min.

However, this really doesn't demonstrate the absolute limit of the XDI HPFP45 for a few reasons:
1. I'm still using the stock injectors and 2900 psi GDI pressure. Larger injectors would allow a lower pressure to be run, which would result in more flow available. Note that the Gen3 coyote GDI injectors are very small - much smaller than the 3.5 and 2.3 ecoboost engines.
2. I'm running .75 lambda, then .72 in COT mode. Without cats, you could run at .82 or leaner, which would allow over 10% more power to be made with the same fuel flow.
3. I'm attempting to hold 90% GDI to get the maximum detonation suppression. Lowering the command to 80 or 85% would also reduce the demands on the GDI system.

Something else in the log was that my DW400 is officially at its limit at the same time. DC was max'd at 50% and pressure fell below 60 psi, so to pushing things further would probably require a DW440 or BAP, and a set of larger GDI injectors.
 

andrewtac

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Saw this before, interesting read but didn't think it applied to me at the time. FI is addictive, and I am working on growth plans.

I have 1050X injectors on the car now with a return system, they'll support the current upgrade (JTB but not turned up all the way) but will probably need something bigger for the follow on plans (built motor and turn the JTB up all the way). I was thinking about doing this rather than bigger port injectors, costs a little more but might make a little more power in the long run (and have more options). Anyone else run this with E85 in the low 1000+ hp range?
 

4sdvenom

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I don't have any answers for you and I'll probably feel stupid for asking this but I'm drawing a blank on what a JTB is?
Thanks
 
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engineermike

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Vortech.

I can’t answerthe question either but I will say I have my doubts as to whether most tuners are even capable of properly tuning for for the Xdi pump. After many months I’m still learning but I think I have it under precise control now. FYI I’m running 3250 psi pressure (stock is 2900) and have learned a lot about how much EOI timing can affect power.
 

andrewtac

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I don't have any answers for you and I'll probably feel stupid for asking this but I'm drawing a blank on what a JTB is?
Thanks
Sorry I keep doing that, assuming everyone knows; vortech V7-JTB; finally ordered it 4-6 week wait.
 

 
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