Would you buy a Mustang with a fully manual DCT?

[IrishStallion]

Drag mode A10 w/ full torque push through the gears is about as efficient as it gets in straight line. Would not necessarily be ideal choice for road circuit unless you are prepared to handle the abrupt chassis distortions, tires, and heat generated by those kind of shifts. To answer your question; no, to full time manual mode. Why....if you can have both? A10 clutch and steel rebuilds waaaay cheaper than DCT rebuilds. lol. Now if your budget is unlimited sure go with the DCT on certain applications.

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[MidwayJ]

Short answer no. I'd rather have the option of full auto or paddle mode. I wish the A10 wasn't so slow to respond to the paddles though.

 

[IrishStallion]

Luckily A15 is in the skunk works. .

 

[GT 550]

So essentially Manual (stick) vs manual (paddle)? Interesting question but don't see the point of difference or extra cost etc associated with a manual only DCT as justified. IMHO the real beauty of DCT is that you can leave it in auto when you're DD'ing and then blip to your heart's content like only a DCT can when you're out seriously tracking/canyon carving, which for most folks isn't that often. And the more often you use one the more you realise it often shifts better than you can so it gets left in Auto anyway.

The whole manual DCT/flappy paddle thing always sounds enticing but in reality it shines only about max 10% of the time.

 

[IrishStallion]

Or a Tremec manual and a heavy duty clutch. ;).

 

[Norm Peterson]

So does a sequential transmission have less connection?

Nothing says they have to be paddles. They could make it a stick that operates like a sequential that you just push it forward or pull it back with a really short throw.

What you're suggesting here is essentially what Hyundai has already done with their A6 in the Veloster. In that car it is at least possible to get both the paddles and a +/- shift lever gate on the same car. My point here is that coming from near-exclusive MT driving, using the +/- gate to command shifting is by far the more natural shift movement and much easier to adapt to. Whether the transmission itself was a conventional automatic with the automated shifting deleted or a DCT with its automated shifting deleted wouldn't change this.

Either way, I'm not at all sure that I'd want to be rigidly tied to one-gear-at-a-time upshifts and downshifts like you are in a motorcycle - 1 down and 4 up, referenced to neutral, was the usual 5-speed bike setup, and I suspect most drivers (MT or AT) would prefer not having to go down one gear at a time even if that could be done with the car already at a full stop.


Norm

 

[Balr14]

A manual shift transmission without the clutch pedal tends to be very tiring. It's OK when you feel like shifting. But, it takes away a lot of flexibility that the clutch pedal gives you. I'll stick to the current A10 or DCT variety.

 

[Hack]

I guess I am simply looking for a manual alternative. Of course, rowing an H pattern is best but I wonder if manual guys would be willing to accept something else when they are no longer available?

I can see there being a setting that could take a current DCT and force it to be direct control - manual only mode as a way to sympathize with the manual crowd. As long as it is not a worthless setting and gets you something, it might be worth it.


Manuals do have the benefit of reducing distracted driving. If there was a way to take the only available tech and make it more manual like, maybe they too will get that benefit too.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17085632/

I don't want anything but a manual. If I can't get a manual I will either drive older cars or buy a different brand. I'm not interested in a DCT in the least.

 

[vdin]

I think using a DCT with paddles is more fun than letting the computer do the work for you but there's just not enough driver interaction and skill involved to keep me engaged. I'm sticking with a manual.

 

[Darkstar]

Only way I would want a DCT without auto mode would be in a track focused car like the GT350R.

 

[Norm Peterson]

So does a sequential transmission have less connection?

At least in street driving, I'd have to say 'yes'. There's a certain satisfaction to be had from being able to make your shifts as close to 'imperceptible' as possible, that you're going to lose once you've got a computer doing the clutch part of it all for you.


Norm

 

[Fly2High]

Short answer no. I'd rather have the option of full auto or paddle mode. I wish the A10 wasn't so slow to respond to the paddles though.

This is part of the reason for my question. The A10 is good but not perfect. The other part is that manual guys like to feel connected.

I see the DCT to become fully manual as just a setting or a computer swap. I also made a mistake in that I should have said that the DCT could be paddle or stick controlled. Forgot that option when I wrote this. A fully manual DCT could remove this delay and give the manual guys something once the H shifter is gone.

I was curious if it was a clutch and H shifter or nothing for the manual crowd and I must say I am in the same boat. I prefer to have the feeling of a clutch. It is not just the action of controlling when to shift but how it is done. I see that seems to be the consensus for most manual drivers.

I also was wondering if there are auto guys who feel the work of a true clutch and H shifter is too much, say in traffic, and this could be a desired choice. I am sure if it was 'selectable' it might be even more. Sure, the 10R80 does have a manual mode but that is still going through the computer and is really taken as suggestion. I am talking about the software to turn off all computer choices and it being strictly from the driver in that mode. Also being a DCT, it should be faster than the 10R80.

Finally, for all those looking for the top performance, this could be the fastest of all. As for the comment that the computer can shift faster. the computer is STILL doing the shifting. The only difference between an auto DCT and this fully manual is that YOU are telling it when to shift and how much. OK, maybe when you need to drop several gears at a time, the auto might be faster but I think the limiting factor is the gear movement and not issuing the commands. Then again on a track, I am sure the auto guesses wrong so you would be gaining time in those situations. As a drag car, deciding when to shift brings back some driver skill instead of being a passenger pressing a pedal.(I know it is much more than that).


I wonder if this was a setting on an auto, a pure manual mode - no computer input, if any auto drivers would take advantage of it? even if it is an occasional usage.

 

[Norm Peterson]

There are a bunch of A10 drivers who have come from a manual who say they purchased the A10 because it is faster than the manual of that year.

I believe a DCT is even faster. I wonder if they simplified the computer so that there is no automatic mode, if it could be even more responsive. Currently, several complain that the computer in many automatic transmissions fight you for gear selection and use your input as merely a suggestion. What if there was no computer to fight with you and only you chose which gear to be in?

Let's say, for kicks and giggles, that Ford or some auto manufacturer comes up with a DCT that is only direct control - no automatic computer. You must use the paddles to shift gears. No clutch pedal. Also, there is not computer to fight with for gear selection. You and only you are in charge of selecting gears. The only computer is there for clutch and gear application that responds to your paddle input. There is no automatic mode to let it shift itself.

Would you buy it, yes or no and why?

As the alternative to a conventional AT with its automated shifting retained, yes. As opposed to an AT with the automated shifting deleted, somewhere between perhaps not and probably not. There's nothing in my driving that needs my shifting times to be absolutely minimized, so the hundred ms or so difference between a good AT and a good DCT isn't important. Sure, if I was to suddenly find myself at the pointy end of Time Trial competition and a DCT was going to be what it took to get to the top of the heap - and I had a sponsor with deepish pockets - I'd go DCT. But at my age that's about as likely to happen as being struck by lightning so I don't see it being a reasonable choice for me at all.

Also, please indicate if you have ever driven a manual before and if this would be an appealing alternative to a stick?

If you had the choice of either a stick or a fully manual paddle actuated DCT, which would you want them to provide if you could only have one?

No big surprise here, I'd still get the conventional 3-pedal kind of stick.


Norm

 

[Fly2High]

Norm,

My comments about performance was to entice all A10 drivers who said they switched to automatic for more performance.

The manual only option was to serve the rowers of gears.

I agree that not all rowers of gears care strictly about getting the last fraction of a second but it seems every time a A10 guy posts it is to point out that the auto is faster. with a DCT, especially a manual DCT, it would be faster still and it would not have the lag that some say the A10 has.

this was an attempt to appeal to both camps

 

[MikeyV]

With the new A10 out, I don't see ant reason for the DCT. It's 200 lbs heavier (or whatever) and it's just an automatic transmission when it comes down to it.
Clutches or converter, it shifts automatically.

I love a real manual and I'll drive that until I can't. I didn't see that option on the poll. ;)

Now, FORD, please put the GT500 style shifter in every auto Mustang. My wife's Expedition has that (and the A10) and it's great.

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