Wiring guide for NON B&O premium audio systems. No LOC required.

Cathul

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With the Mosconis you have to do the Math yourself. Except for the newer DSPs that use the new software. They have automatic time alignment built in into their measurement software.

 

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I just learned recently looking at the JL Tun software that you have to measure off the farthest away speaker which usually is the sub.
 

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I just learned recently looking at the JL Tun software that you have to measure off the farthest away speaker which usually is the sub.
Yeah, evidently it varies depending on which DSP you have. My Audio Control does everything for you, all you have to do is input the correct distances and it does the calculations for you.
 

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Even if the sub is the driver farthest away it might be that you have to delay the front speakers relative to the sub.
This is due to phase. Distance alone is not sufficient!
In my Mustang I had to delay the whole front by about 0.44 ms relative to the sub, although the sub is the driver with biggest distance to the drivers position.
 

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Even if the sub is the driver farthest away it might be that you have to delay the front speakers relative to the sub.
This is due to phase. Distance alone is not sufficient!
In my Mustang I had to delay the whole front by about 0.44 ms relative to the sub, although the sub is the driver with biggest distance to the drivers position.
Correct and you may need to swap phases based on those distances but you need a mic that can determine it.
 


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An USB mic line the UMIK-1 will do that with sweeps in REW with acoustic timing reference.
 

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Hey guys. So I'm really close to being done with my upgrade. I've added...

- Hertz MPK 165.3 PRO 2 way components to the door and pillar (couldn't find the 3ohm versions so I had to go with the 4ohm from Crutchfield)
- JL Audio JD400/4 driving the Hertz using their passive crossovers. The other two channels are driving the stock rear speakers on the sides of the rear seat.

I had a Kenwood HU in place so I ran RCAs off the pre-amp outs to my trunk for both the JL amp and also a Kicker 300.1 amp, which I had and am currently using for a Kenwood 10" Sealed Sub in the trunk, tucked under the compartment for the top. It fits well, but I'm going to go with something a bit larger soon as it's just not cutting it.

In addition to the equipment I added, I also used Kilmat pretty much across my entire trunk, and SoundSkin Pro on both of my doors. I'm trying to do this installation right since I plan on keeping this car for years. Overall, I'm definitely hearing improvement in the quality of the sound, but it's not as substantial as I had hoped.

The one issue that I'd love some input on is the tweeter performance of the new Hertz speakers. At lower volumes, such as when I'm sitting in my garage with the car off listening to them, everything sounds great. But when I raise the volume, the tweeters just become a bit overpowering and get a bit harsh. The passive crossovers have a -2db switch, which I engaged, but they still get a bit harsh at higher levels. Is that a typical "symptom" of a passive crossover...having the levels of each component possibly differ relative to the main volume, or is it just that the Hertz tweeters will get a bit harsh at higher volumes? I know that the best approach would be to add a DSP and go active, which I do hope to do at some point when I can budget a DSP. But I also don't want to simply spend more money if there are other issues possibly at play? Another thing I noticed is that both tweeters seem to test out of phase from the midbass modules, even though they are wired correctly. Is that normal?

I know the sound in a convertible will be a bit difficult to manage due noise when the top is down. But I do hope that I can get things a bit more dialed in and sounding better than they do. Appreciate any recommendations which I'm sure includes getting a DSP unit sooner than later. Just have to talk with the "treasury dept" and see if I can get that purchase approved. :wink:
 

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Hey guys. So I'm really close to being done with my upgrade. I've added...

- Hertz MPK 165.3 PRO 2 way components to the door and pillar (couldn't find the 3ohm versions so I had to go with the 4ohm from Crutchfield)
- JL Audio JD400/4 driving the Hertz using their passive crossovers. The other two channels are driving the stock rear speakers on the sides of the rear seat.

I had a Kenwood HU in place so I ran RCAs off the pre-amp outs to my trunk for both the JL amp and also a Kicker 300.1 amp, which I had and am currently using for a Kenwood 10" Sealed Sub in the trunk, tucked under the compartment for the top. It fits well, but I'm going to go with something a bit larger soon as it's just not cutting it.

In addition to the equipment I added, I also used Kilmat pretty much across my entire trunk, and SoundSkin Pro on both of my doors. I'm trying to do this installation right since I plan on keeping this car for years. Overall, I'm definitely hearing improvement in the quality of the sound, but it's not as substantial as I had hoped.

The one issue that I'd love some input on is the tweeter performance of the new Hertz speakers. At lower volumes, such as when I'm sitting in my garage with the car off listening to them, everything sounds great. But when I raise the volume, the tweeters just become a bit overpowering and get a bit harsh. The passive crossovers have a -2db switch, which I engaged, but they still get a bit harsh at higher levels. Is that a typical "symptom" of a passive crossover...having the levels of each component possibly differ relative to the main volume, or is it just that the Hertz tweeters will get a bit harsh at higher volumes? I know that the best approach would be to add a DSP and go active, which I do hope to do at some point when I can budget a DSP. But I also don't want to simply spend more money if there are other issues possibly at play? Another thing I noticed is that both tweeters seem to test out of phase from the midbass modules, even though they are wired correctly. Is that normal?

I know the sound in a convertible will be a bit difficult to manage due noise when the top is down. But I do hope that I can get things a bit more dialed in and sounding better than they do. Appreciate any recommendations which I'm sure includes getting a DSP unit sooner than later. Just have to talk with the "treasury dept" and see if I can get that purchase approved. :wink:
Polarity and Phase are two different things. Think of phase like an AC sine wave going up and down. Out of phase means you’re hearing one speaker as it’s going up in amplitude and the other as it’s going down. A DSP can correct this.
 

luv2fly3

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Polarity and Phase are two different things. Think of phase like an AC sine wave going up and down. Out of phase means you’re hearing one speaker as it’s going up in amplitude and the other as it’s going down. A DSP can correct this.
But should the tweeters test out of phase when the midbass modules test in phase? I understand polarity and phase and their relationship, but I would have thought that both would test in phase if wired with the correct polarity. But maybe not. I haven't installed components in any prior vehicle so that the piece I'm not sure of.
 

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Polarity is just a 180° phase flip. If you go fully active all drivers should show same polarity when driven with the same impulse. Rest is done via time alignment and maybe a phase flip (if needed). If your DSP has variable phase settings you could use this also (Helix has, but it's an allpass filter after all, so....).

So... all speaker drivers should show the same polarity when tested with a polarity checker. If needed (f.e. 12dB slopes on the crossover) you flip the polarity in the DSP.
If you don't have a DSP you change the wires to flip the polarity, but only in case you got a 12dB electrical crossover!
 
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StangTime

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But should the tweeters test out of phase when the midbass modules test in phase? I understand polarity and phase and their relationship, but I would have thought that both would test in phase if wired with the correct polarity. But maybe not. I haven't installed components in any prior vehicle so that the piece I'm not sure of.
How are you testing speaker phase?

If you wired up the drivers to their corresponding terminals on the passive crossover, all speakers "should" be in phase. The type of passive crossover will dictate whether the tweeter polarity is flipped or not and the terminals will be marked accordingly by the manufacturer for proper phase in most installations. That is a vehicle that does not alter the phase relationship due to speaker placement. The less than ideal installation locations in a car skews phase relationships between speakers and that's where the benefits of a DSP with a fully active system come in. On a passive system your hands are tied. All you can do is flip polarity if you have a phase issue due to the constraints of the vehicle geometry. Your crossover is 6db for the mid-bass and 12db for the tweeter.

As far as harshness, if you consult the owners manual for the Hertz kit, you will see the crossover has a switch to help compensate for the physical mounting distance between the tweeter and the mid-bass driver. I'm assuming this is attenuating the tweeters as they will be louder being closer to your ears. For the Mustang this should be set to 'B':

1657034924796.png
 

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I ended up having a shop tap the front bottom speakers for the sub signal. I used one channel of an LC7I and a Rockford Fosgate prime 1200x1 powering 2 Rockford Fosgate TOD4 12 speakers in a ported box that barely fits. It sounds amazing, buy the speakers can handle a lot more. I bought the power T1500 Rockford Fosgate mono block. More to come
 

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Polarity is just a 180° phase flip. If you go fully active all drivers should show same polarity when driven with the same impulse. Rest is done via time alignment and maybe a phase flip (if needed). If your DSP has variable phase settings you could use this also (Helix has, but it's an allpass filter after all, so....).

So... all speaker drivers should show the same polarity when tested with a polarity checker. If needed (f.e. 12dB slopes on the crossover) you flip the polarity in the DSP.
If you don't have a DSP you change the wires to flip the polarity, but only in case you got a 12dB electrical crossover!
How are you testing speaker phase?

If you wired up the drivers to their corresponding terminals on the passive crossover, all speakers "should" be in phase. The type of passive crossover will dictate whether the tweeter polarity is flipped or not and the terminals will be marked accordingly by the manufacturer for proper phase in most installations. That is a vehicle that does not alter the phase relationship due to speaker placement. The less than ideal installation locations in a car skews phase relationships between speakers and that's where the benefits of a DSP with a fully active system come in. On a passive system your hands are tied. All you can do is flip polarity if you have a phase issue due to the constraints of the vehicle geometry. Your crossover is 6db for the mid-bass and 12db for the tweeter.

As far as harshness, if you consult the owners manual for the Hertz kit, you will see the crossover has a switch to help compensate for the physical mounting distance between the tweeter and the mid-bass driver. I'm assuming this is attenuating the tweeters as they will be louder being closer to your ears. For the Mustang this should be set to 'B':

1657034924796.png
Hey guys, sorry for the delay in responding. Thanks so much for the continued help. @StangTime I was testing polarity with one of the testers found on Amazon that uses a "click" track being played, and the tester by the speaker. Maybe it's wrong, but I verified all of my wiring is correct, so I'm going to leave it as is. I did find that the TW level switch was in the top position, which I misread as "-2db". On my crossover it actually shows "+2db" in the upper position and "0db" in the lower. So I switched it to the lower position and that definitely helped. In addition, my Kenwood has a "TW Gain" function for the front outputs, which basically is a shelf filter starting at 1kHz so I have been able to adjust that to a db or more down and get a bit more of the sound I'm after.

IMG_0409.JPG


So at this point I'm pretty close to being done! My son has had some issues getting his 3D printer to work with the ABS filament, so I am missing the second adapter ring. But I have one in place, and am hoping for the second this weekend.

Here are a few pics of my installation.

All torn apart! My wife was a bit freaked out at this point. ;-)

IMG_0369.JPG


I mounted the main fuse next to the battery box, which allows it to be hidden when the cover is on.

IMG_0391.JPG


My amp rack. I've left room for future equipment, possibly a DSP and another amp. I'll probably clean up the main cables coming back a bit too. But overall, it turned out well and definitely is a stable platform for the equipment.

IMG_0422.JPG


I have a 10" Kenwood sub that tucks perfectly under the rear compartment for the convertible top.

IMG_0424.JPG


The sound material I added to the doors. I also added it on the inside of the door as best as I could. Made a big difference!

IMG_0431.JPG


New Hertz tweeter in the pillar. Just a snug fit like you suggested Todd.

IMG_0425.JPG


Finally, my Kenwood HU all back in place.

IMG_0342.JPG


Overall, I'm very happy with the Hertz speakers and new JL amp I put in. In addition to a DSP and possible second amp, I might add a second 10" sub to the trunk and upgrade my sub amp. The single 10" does an awesome job when the top is up, but when I put it down, I think it just absorbs a lot of the bass and another sub would definitely help offset that. If I use two separate boxes instead of one large box, I can remove one when I need additional trunk space. We'll see.

Anyway, appreciate all of the help guys! Definitely wouldn't have had the comfort tackling this project without it.
 

demon67

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Hey guys, sorry for the delay in responding. Thanks so much for the continued help. @StangTime I was testing polarity with one of the testers found on Amazon that uses a "click" track being played, and the tester by the speaker. Maybe it's wrong, but I verified all of my wiring is correct, so I'm going to leave it as is. I did find that the TW level switch was in the top position, which I misread as "-2db". On my crossover it actually shows "+2db" in the upper position and "0db" in the lower. So I switched it to the lower position and that definitely helped. In addition, my Kenwood has a "TW Gain" function for the front outputs, which basically is a shelf filter starting at 1kHz so I have been able to adjust that to a db or more down and get a bit more of the sound I'm after.

IMG_0409.JPG


So at this point I'm pretty close to being done! My son has had some issues getting his 3D printer to work with the ABS filament, so I am missing the second adapter ring. But I have one in place, and am hoping for the second this weekend.

Here are a few pics of my installation.

All torn apart! My wife was a bit freaked out at this point. ;-)

IMG_0369.JPG


I mounted the main fuse next to the battery box, which allows it to be hidden when the cover is on.

IMG_0391.JPG


My amp rack. I've left room for future equipment, possibly a DSP and another amp. I'll probably clean up the main cables coming back a bit too. But overall, it turned out well and definitely is a stable platform for the equipment.

IMG_0422.JPG


I have a 10" Kenwood sub that tucks perfectly under the rear compartment for the convertible top.

IMG_0424.JPG


The sound material I added to the doors. I also added it on the inside of the door as best as I could. Made a big difference!

IMG_0431.JPG


New Hertz tweeter in the pillar. Just a snug fit like you suggested Todd.

IMG_0425.JPG


Finally, my Kenwood HU all back in place.

IMG_0342.JPG


Overall, I'm very happy with the Hertz speakers and new JL amp I put in. In addition to a DSP and possible second amp, I might add a second 10" sub to the trunk and upgrade my sub amp. The single 10" does an awesome job when the top is up, but when I put it down, I think it just absorbs a lot of the bass and another sub would definitely help offset that. If I use two separate boxes instead of one large box, I can remove one when I need additional trunk space. We'll see.

Anyway, appreciate all of the help guys! Definitely wouldn't have had the comfort tackling this project without it.
Nice work. Did you have to pry the pillar off to get at that tweeter or can you remove it from the front?
 

Evolvd

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Nice work. Did you have to pry the pillar off to get at that tweeter or can you remove it from the front?
A pillar trim needs to be removed to get to the tweeter. The tabs holding on the plastic grill are also accessed from the back.
 

 
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