Will we ever again see a Mustang on a dealer lot FS?

ICU812

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LOL your argument on $19hr for entry level positions and expensive housing makes absolutely zero sense. You do understand not everyone in the US is going to be as ambitious as the next person, right? The less ambitious folks will not own homes. My more ambitious employees, move up the chain, better themselves, and have no problem owning homes in our areas.
That is why this Country is so great. It’s the land of opportunity. It’s not the land of guaranteed home ownership, or guaranteed anything. You get out, what you put in. You have the freedom to leave a position, if you don’t think it pays what you’re worth. My key employees, are paid very well. Which is why they’ve been with me for years.
Not everyone is going to be as equal as the next, the level of laziness matters. Laziness and no ambition is why this Country will go down the gutter. Everyone wants a free ride.
There isn’t one company in the WA and OR networks of transportation and warehousing businesses that are not struggling to hire, I meet with them on business sharing platforms. Every single business I drive by, from TacoBell to Walmart, are clearly having hiring issues with low paying positions. My TacoBell randomly closes at 5pm due to staffing issues. That is happening ALL ACROSS Oregon and Washington, with all businesses. This has been on National news. Been under a rock?

What type of business is this that you own, where people are beating down your door to work for you?

The only businesses that would not be having labor issues, are the ones that pay significantly higher wages due to the nature of that specific industry.
Obviously, as I mentioned, I can’t pay a warehouse lumper what a Fing doctor makes. If you think I should be, please don’t reply, it’s not worth my time. So, since my business is mainly lower wage workers, I compete with Gov and their unemployment. Just like all other businesses that have lower income workers. You can’t say every single business that’s having hiring issues treated their employees like shit. You need to open your eyes and understand what is really happening.
Businesses that do not have high levels of low income workers, would not be facing the challenges I do.
The type of business, matters, in regards to this discussion. And most of the labor issues you see are lower income jobs, competing with unemployment. Not sure you can wrap your head around that.
Good luck , that is all I can say. Might want to move your business out of a far left area. ( I'll leave it at that, to not get thread shut)
People will work, but only if doing so, allows them to live.
If they need a full time job, and then a 2nd job to keep head above water. they say screw it.
So, they say,
I'll take the low cost housing, the free bee's and anything else offered.
If you think housing cost has nothing to do with any of this, you are sadly mistaken.
Again good luck.
I wasn't raised like that, I was raised you shovel crap if you have to, to earn a living. but many after decades of being pushed into a corner have thrown in the towel and said, why am I killing myself working 2-3 jobs. So they learn to play the game so many others have. as it offers them career training i.e. college degree's for free, while on welfare.
Sure part of the problem is welfare pays too well, but that fact does not change the reality of many jobs, take home will not cover an apartment or home, food, wheels to get to a job, health insurance forced on them, auto insurance, gas, heat, electric, a cell phone, and things to wear .
19 bucks an hour might be great in Idaho, or any low cost of living area. but WASHINGTON STATE. lol. sorry.
Reality is cruel some times. But it is this way from decades of putting the Local, state and fed admin on auto pilot.
A ____ of the people, by the people only works when ,the people are involved. and autopilot and not caring is why we have what we have.
WE BUILT THIS. OWN IT>
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TundraOnKings

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Good luck , that is all I can say. Might want to move your business out of a far left area. ( I'll leave it at that, to not get thread shut)
People will work, but only if doing so, allows them to live.
If they need a full time job, and then a 2nd job to keep head above water. they say screw it.
So, they say,
I'll take the low cost housing, the free bee's and anything else offered.
If you think housing cost has nothing to do with any of this, you are sadly mistaken.
Again good luck.
I wasn't raised like that, I was raised you shovel crap if you have to, to earn a living. but many after decades of being pushed into a corner have thrown in the towel and said, why am I killing myself working 2-3 jobs. So they learn to play the game so many others have. as it offers them career training i.e. college degree's for free, while on welfare.
Sure part of the problem is welfare pays too well, but that fact does not change the reality of many jobs, take home will not cover an apartment or home, food, wheels to get to a job, health insurance forced on them, auto insurance, gas, heat, electric, a cell phone, and things to wear .
19 bucks an hour might be great in Idaho, or any low cost of living area. but WASHINGTON STATE. lol. sorry.
Reality is cruel some times. But it is this way from decades of putting the Local, state and fed admin on auto pilot.
A ____ of the people, by the people only works when ,the people are involved. and autopilot and not caring is why we have what we have.
WE BUILT THIS. OWN IT>
I think you are still confused on the entire reason I posted.
I don’t need luck business wise, we profited more last month than we did in all of 2020 - and that’s with most of our employees receiving nice bonuses and huge bumps in pay, they are very happy. That’s why I haven’t followed our friends and family all over the country to better areas. Thankfully I live in the country on acreage, in a R community.
My point I was trying to prove……if people are wondering why 100 ships are sitting at idle outside of LA, and 60 are outside of SEA, it’s because lower wage people that should be unloading containers, are sitting at home getting paid by .GOV…. I mentioned I could run 3 shifts vs 1, but honestly, I do not want to grow my business any larger, making it harder to manage. It is very tempting because if I did that for about a year I could retire at 40yrs old, thankfully that’s not an option because people aren’t willing to work right now.
I want my business to be small enough to know all my key employees, but large enough to make decent profits and live comfortably, while allowing me a great place to go during the week and be a positive place that employs people. That’s about 70-100 employees for me. There is a fine line, and I think I’ve played my cards nicely to where our employees are happy. I will not ever borrow money (lines of credit) nor introduce investors, because then I lose freedom, and if I lose freedom, so would my employees. I just spent $1,000.00 earlier today on a managers tires - I couldn’t do that with investors or growing our company just to benefit myself.
There is a lot of opportunity for so many right now, and not a lot are taking advantage (hourly worker wise).
So moral of the story, thank .GOV for paying people to stay home, which doesn’t get them ships worked and product moved.
Inflation is the result of .GOV.

PS - $19.00hr in Portland ends up at $2493.00 MO after taxes/insurance/etc….
So your average kid that just graduated, can EASILY live in any apartment within 60 miles of our facility, have a beater car and eat/live just fine.
I never rented in my life, but I can tell you I was smart enough to know I needed a partner in order to live comfortably. So I had a girl that was equally as ambitious, with a decent job, so we bought a house together at 20yrs old. 8yrs later I married her. This is 20 years ago, at the company I now own. I started out at $9.00hr. And the girl I shacked up with is still my wife.
Life is what you make it, and it can easily be done around our area.
No excuses.
 
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Hanavarian

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The same thing happened in Europe starting about twenty to twenty-five years ago. Back then you went to a dealer in the morning, you were shown a field full of new, shiny cars in various colours, you picked one, and by early afternoon you would drive it home.
Then, over the course of a few years, things changed a bit. You could still go and buy your car on the spot if you weren't picky, but if you wanted a special colour or trim level you had to wait for one or two weeks until it was shipped from a larger depot which was in a nearby country.
Then, a few more years down the line, you could still buy your car on the spot if you wanted a colourless diesel in whatever trim happened to be in stock that month, but everything else had to be custom ordered. By 2010 virtually all major manufacturers operated like this.
Nowadays even that colourless diesel isn't in stock anymore. Unless you're willing to buy one of the dealer's demo cars (which may or may not be for sale at that particular time), a custom order is the only way to buy a new car. At least a new Ford. There are occasional exceptions here and there - a friend of mine has just bought a new Mazda (she was able to find it in stock because it was grey and she couldn't care less about the trim level) - but they are quite rare.

I remember that twenty years ago I was appalled by the idea that you could have to wait for your new car to be shipped from another country for you, let alone produced for you. Not being able to go and buy a new car right away like you would buy a pair of socks was unimaginable. Sometimes I would read in a magazine about some special edition Mercedes or Porsche which had a delivery time of six months, and I would laugh my ass off.
When I wanted to buy a Renault in the summer of 2001, I could have had it immediately in the base trim, and even in the colour I wanted, but I wanted the optional ABS and passenger airbag, so I had to wait three weeks for it to be shipped from Turkey. Three weeks! That felt like three centuries to me. When I told my friends about it, they all said the same thing: this is stupid, Renault will go out of business in no time if they behave like this.
Well, it turns out they didn't. Not only did they not go out of business because of this practice, but quite the contrary, all of the other manufacturers followed suit, and today we're all so used to it that we don't even flinch when the dealer tells us our new car will be delivered four months from now (or nine months, in the case of a Mustang).
Renault did go out of business and we're rescued by at least 3 state sponsored bailouts. Their market share shrank dramatically to the point that a tie up with Nissan and the product sharing from them was the only way they could produce cars that few wanted to buy in the end.

To date Renault has a heavy state ownership.

A failed company by all measure over several decades.

Goshn save both and wanted to merge with Nissan so Nissan trumped up some fake charges on payments that never occured to prevent them coming under the umbrella of a multi decade loser welfare company that Nissan was on the cusp of prior to Goshn intervention.

Water and money flows in the path of least resistance and if in need a car I will buy one from whomever has the general spec that I want, unless it's an aspirational brand, which Ford is definitely on the bottom of brand desirability lists.
 

ICU812

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I think you are still confused on the entire reason I posted.
I don’t need luck business wise, we profited more last month than we did in all of 2020 - and that’s with most of our employees receiving nice bonuses and huge bumps in pay, they are very happy. That’s why I haven’t followed our friends and family all over the country to better areas. Thankfully I live in the country on acreage, in a R community.
My point I was trying to prove……if people are wondering why 100 ships are sitting at idle outside of LA, and 60 are outside of SEA, it’s because lower wage people that should be unloading containers, are sitting at home getting paid by .GOV…. I mentioned I could run 3 shifts vs 1, but honestly, I do not want to grow my business any larger, making it harder to manage. It is very tempting because if I did that for about a year I could retire at 40yrs old, thankfully that’s not an option because people aren’t willing to work right now.
I want my business to be small enough to know all my key employees, but large enough to make decent profits and live comfortably, while allowing me a great place to go during the week and be a positive place that employs people. That’s about 70-100 employees for me. There is a fine line, and I think I’ve played my cards nicely to where our employees are happy. I will not ever borrow money (lines of credit) nor introduce investors, because then I lose freedom, and if I lose freedom, so would my employees. I just spent $1,000.00 earlier today on a managers tires - I couldn’t do that with investors or growing our company just to benefit myself.
There is a lot of opportunity for so many right now, and not a lot are taking advantage (hourly worker wise).
So moral of the story, thank .GOV for paying people to stay home, which doesn’t get them ships worked and product moved.
Inflation is the result of .GOV.
Sure, that is why you posted you can't get help.
Good night.
My tall boots are at the repair shop.
 

Hanavarian

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Good luck , that is all I can say. Might want to move your business out of a far left area. ( I'll leave it at that, to not get thread shut)
People will work, but only if doing so, allows them to live.
If they need a full time job, and then a 2nd job to keep head above water. they say screw it.
So, they say,
I'll take the low cost housing, the free bee's and anything else offered.
If you think housing cost has nothing to do with any of this, you are sadly mistaken.
Again good luck.
I wasn't raised like that, I was raised you shovel crap if you have to, to earn a living. but many after decades of being pushed into a corner have thrown in the towel and said, why am I killing myself working 2-3 jobs. So they learn to play the game so many others have. as it offers them career training i.e. college degree's for free, while on welfare.
Sure part of the problem is welfare pays too well, but that fact does not change the reality of many jobs, take home will not cover an apartment or home, food, wheels to get to a job, health insurance forced on them, auto insurance, gas, heat, electric, a cell phone, and things to wear .
19 bucks an hour might be great in Idaho, or any low cost of living area. but WASHINGTON STATE. lol. sorry.
Reality is cruel some times. But it is this way from decades of putting the Local, state and fed admin on auto pilot.
A ____ of the people, by the people only works when ,the people are involved. and autopilot and not caring is why we have what we have.
WE BUILT THIS. OWN IT>
I for one sent 900 jobs to Mexico production facility in 2019along with 30 engineering and management jobs from Canada to TX. Could not be happier.

All the USA and Canadian production competition are 16-20 higher cost, with endless issues while MX is seamless Germanic production.

I will never invest a penny in USA or Canadian production ever, and my entire USA and Euro supply chain is also producing in MX with few of the infamous bottlenecks that are hyped up in the media.

Canadian / USA mill run special steel: sorry not taking orders. MX and swedes 16 weeks. Tires no problem. Anything need no problem untill cross the border then it's a huge shortage, prices up 20 %.

It's a comedy.
 

ICU812

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I for one sent 900 jobs to Mexico production facility and 30 engineering and management jobs from Canada to TX and could not be happier.

All the USA and Canadian production competition are 16-20 higher cost, with endless issues while MX is seamless Germanic production.

I will never invest a penny in USA or Canadian production ever, and my entire USA and Euro supply chain is also producing in MX with few of the infamous bottlenecks that are hyped up in the media.

Canadian / USA mill run special steel: sorry not taking orders. MX and swedes 16 weeks. Tires no problem. Anything need no problem untill cross the border then it's a huge shortage, prices up 20 %.

It's a comedy.
So, why not move there?
Don't bother reply'n. I know the answer.
 

TundraOnKings

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Sure, that is why you posted you can't get help.
Good night.
My tall boots are at the repair shop.
LOL!!! Yep, I’m making all of this up! Again, you can’t pick up what I’m putting down. Not sure why, or if you’re choosing to ignore facts, but it is what it is.
Ships and freight are not moving, because people are sitting at home.
 

ICU812

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LOL!!! Yep, I’m making all of this up! Again, you can’t pick up what I’m putting down. Not sure why, or if you’re choosing to ignore facts, but it is what it is.
Ships and freight are not moving, because people are sitting at home.
Wrong, ships and frieght are not moving because cali, being cali, and being stupid. forcing thousands of rigs off the roads that would normally service the ports.
but why use facts.
If cali. tomorrow, allowed rigs built before 2011 to be tagged again, and let owner /op's service the ports. the back log would be history.FACT.
If people forced cali. to revoke that part of the bill/law/act. this would be over. but the talking heads has everyone thinking it is a labor issue. spin, spin, sugar
 

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So, why not move there?
Don't bother reply'n. I know the answer.
I love MX and spend 20% + of my time in PDC shuttling effortlessly between Monterrey, Guadalajara and Mexico on new jets with hot flight attendants in efficient airports, often booking one way the day or hours before at very good prices. No cancellations and few delays and no attitude from airport personnel....almost feels like W Europe or Asia haha.
 

TundraOnKings

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Wrong, ships and frieght are not moving because cali, being cali, and being stupid. forcing thousands of rigs off the roads that would normally service the ports.
but why use facts.
If cali. tomorrow, allowed rigs built before 2011 to be tagged again, and let owner /op's service the ports. the back log would be history.FACT.
If people forced cali. to revoke that part of the bill/law/act. this would be over. but the talking heads has everyone thinking it is a labor issue. spin, spin, sugar
I had to buy all the stupid DPF trucks too. Millions of dollars worth, I get it. And I agree - that absolutely did not help. You are correct there and I will agree with you. Thankfully the Ports I service allow me to use Owner-opps, for now. We’re only required to run DPF 2007 engine year, which is 2008 model year and newer trucks. It has absolutely sucked. The DPF/DEF engines are 100% more unreliable and have cost me a shit ton. I raised my rates and put a congestion fee in place to offset operating costs.
Still, labor is a serious issue and unemployment has very much effected our business. At this time, labor to unload containers has superseded the drivers that can move the containers to our facility. Although, they are both very big issues.
An issue that’s hadn’t been mentioned is chassis, which is just as important. They are required to haul containers. I have about 40, and could easily use 75 more. I reached out to the major MFG’s across the US, and the ones that import from
China - no go. My Rep said earliest is 2023 for delivery. That does not help right now.
Biggest problem in regard to that, the Steamship lines won’t give us empty return locations for the containers. So
I can’t free up my chassis.
That’s deeper than we need to go, but all related. Lots of issues in the industry.
I get it, believe me.
 

ICU812

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I love MX and spend 20% + of my time in PDC shuttling effortlessly between Monterrey, Guadalajara and Mexico on new jets with hot flight attendants in efficient airports, often booking one way the day or hours before at very good prices. No cancellations and few delays and no attitude from airport personnel....almost feels like W Europe or Asia haha.
Yet you don't live there. you know why, I know why, you are not foolin anyone.
 

ICU812

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I had to buy all the stupid DPF trucks too. Millions of dollars worth, I get it. And I agree - that absolutely did not help. You are correct there and I will agree with you. Thankfully the Ports I service allow me to use Owner-opps, for now. We’re only required to run DPF 2007 engine year, which is 2008 model year and newer trucks. It has absolutely sucked. The DPF/DEF engines are 100% more unreliable and have cost me a shit ton. I raised my rates and put a congestion fee in place to offset operating costs.
Still, labor is a serious issue and unemployment has very much effected our business. At this time, labor to unload containers has superseded the drivers that can move the containers to our facility. Although, they are both very big issues.
An issue that’s hadn’t been mentioned is chassis, which is just as important. They are required to haul containers. I have about 40, and could easily use 75 more. I reached out to the major MFG’s across the US, and the ones that import from
China - no go. My Rep said earliest is 2023 for delivery. That does not help right now.
Biggest problem in regard to that, the Steamship lines won’t give us empty return locations for the containers. So
I can’t free up my chassis.
That’s deeper than we need to go, but all related. Lots of issues in the industry.
I get it, believe me.
You can't claim a labor issue, when you don't have rigs for drivers to drive, you can't move cargo, without rigs, to move it.
Right now, drivers show up for a shift and are waiting on a rig to drive.
Again, If I was king the welfare state would go back to the way it was in the depression, you wanted the government hand out, you showed up at where they told you to go, and worked . not sit on your butt, and collect a check. But I'm not a king, All I can do is, be involved and try to get things changed, most can't be bothered so we have what we have. Many want to work, but most employers have become too damn picky. x years in industry, not willing to train .
A family members has gone to many interviews knowing the job is asking for 2-5 years in the industry, is willing to start at a lower wage, and learn as he goes. Sorry not interested. Yet, out the other side of their mouth they claim they can't get help. Wonder why.
 

Vlad Soare

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Renault did go out of business and we're rescued by at least 3 state sponsored bailouts. Their market share shrank dramatically to the point that a tie up with Nissan and the product sharing from them was the only way they could produce cars that few wanted to buy in the end.
That's a different story and has nothing to do with the ordering model. At the time I'm talking about they had already been state-owned for about a decade or so, if memory serves.
I don't know what happened at the top, how much money Ghosn stole or didn't steal, and I don't even care. All I know is that over here Renault sales have been reasonably strong for the past two decades, and they're still selling quite well today.

But anyway, that's not really the point. I only mentioned Renault because that's what I happened to buy at that time, but Renault was not alone. The other manufacturers started doing the same at about the same time.

Water and money flows in the path of least resistance and if in need a car I will buy one from whomever has the general spec that I want, unless it's an aspirational brand, which Ford is definitely on the bottom of brand desirability lists.
Yeah, but if all manufacturers use the same sales strategy, then you may not be able to find the general spec that you want unless you're willing to custom-order and wait. Because they don't base their strategy on the opinions of a handful of car enthusiasts on the internet. They base it on the majority of the potential customers, who will most likely be willing to wait a bit more just to get a car in the right spec at a slightly better price.
If most of the potential customers think like you (or like me, twenty years ago), then of course the manufacturers will be forced to stick with the old sales model, as you say. But what if they don't? In Europe they didn't.
 

ICU812

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That's a different story and has nothing to do with the ordering model. At the time I'm talking about they had already been state-owned for about a decade or so, if memory serves.
I don't know what happened at the top, how much money Ghosn stole or didn't steal, and I don't even care. All I know is that over here Renault sales have been reasonably strong for the past two decades, and they're still selling quite well today.

But anyway, that's not really the point. I only mentioned Renault because that's what I happened to buy at that time, but Renault was not alone. The other manufacturers started doing the same at about the same time.


Yeah, but if all manufacturers use the same sales strategy, then you may not be able to find the general spec that you want unless you're willing to custom-order and wait. Because they don't base their strategy on the opinions of a handful of car enthusiasts on the internet. They base it on the majority of the potential customers, who will most likely be willing to wait a bit more just to get a car in the right spec at a slightly better price.
If most of the potential customers think like you (or like me, twenty years ago), then of course the manufacturers will be forced to stick with the old sales model, as you say. But what if they don't? In Europe they didn't.
I think With some vehicles Ordering it won't take long from order to delivery. Look at the Mach-e. It is offered in two trims, and no options outside those trim levels.
Making the "just in time" parts ordering work with a business model like a mostly ordered to suit operation.
Where the vehicle only comes as base, or prem trim. and what color you want it.
I just don't see it working, people are not willing to wait on slow service, or wifi. Waiting weeks for a vehicle mostly likely won't fly with the general public. at least here.
The person that wants his/her car/truck Their way and won't settle will be willing to wait, but those that see vehicles as just a tool to get from point A to point B, will not.
I mean in 2019 92 MILLION vehicles were produced, That number is possible because many units went down a line all built the same way , then sent to dealers.
If the line has to goto a order by order basis. the back log of units will be in the millions.
 

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It's true. The American market may be different and may react differently over time. We'll see...
 
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