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Will Joe Biden die of old age or be sent to prison?

Joe Biden will die or be arrested first?

  • Dead

    Votes: 18 56.3%
  • Arrested

    Votes: 1 3.1%
  • Don't care

    Votes: 13 40.6%

  • Total voters
    32
  • Poll closed .
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Gregs24

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The problem is that when someone has 100% control over something and can edit at will, it becomes almost impossible to determine what is accurate and what is not. I feel that the accuracy of things I have read on there isn't accurate, therefore I am disinclined to trust wiki.
But you don't need to trust Wiki. It provides links and quotes that you can follow so that you can verify it yourself if you doubt it. Just because you found something you don't like doesn't mean it is all rubbish.

That issue aside therefore - which bits don't you agree with ? Or is it just that Naziism is right wing you don't like and the rest is fine ?
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Weather Man

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But you don't need to trust Wiki. It provides links and quotes that you can follow so that you can verify it yourself if you doubt it. Just because you found something you don't like doesn't mean it is all rubbish.

That issue aside therefore - which bits don't you agree with ? Or is it just that Naziism is right wing you don't like and the rest is fine ?
I don't trust any of it. This sums up how I feel about Nazism and Fascism on the right.

https://www.dineshdsouza.com/news/dsouza-shows-nazism-fascism-not-right-wing/
 

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My comments about the outcome being decided by the centre are purely mathematical. The extreme right and left will never change views, but the centre ground (or 'flippers' as some on here refer to them) actually do make the difference.

The UK is a case in point where the centre ground really does determine the outcome. The longest serving PM's in the UK have all had the support of the centre (or wherever the centre was at that time - it does move about). So examples are Thatcher (when the majority of the UK were fed up with the loony left unions) or Blair when the extreme elements of the right were taking control of the Conservative party. There will be people who voted for Thatcher and Blair (in theory right and left)

I was perhaps a bit incorrect in my term socialist states, I actually meant left wing governments that some in the US would class as commie socialists, but in reality are left of centre. Having said that China as a socialist state is incredibly successful, with only limited private ownership and plenty of state control. I suppose it depends on how you define success. China's GDP is rapidly catching the US and will overtake it, the resources and potential are truly awe inspiring, but if you define success as political and personal freedom China is a non starter.

I am an optimist and would like to think the moderate law abiding majority will prevail, but the US certainly has a rocky road ahead.

Nice to have a reasonable discussion with somebody that doesn't involve childish insults by the way.
From a mathematical perspective, I agree the center will always determine the outcome of elections. However, I would offer that the center has shifted, as the extremes on both ends grow further apart. Even in the States, where we essentially only have two parties, the extreme left and extreme right effectively create a multi-party-like phenomenon. In the past, the extremes could be largely dismissed, because their influence was relatively insignificant. Now the extremes form "the base," a term that wasn't previously used, at least not to the extent that you hear it now. Hence, while the center decides, the base (extremes) wield significant influence. Same is true throughout the West.

Your point is well taken with China. If success is measured on the state's ability to generate wealth at the expense of freedom and self-determination, then China is successful. If, however, individual freedoms as we know them in context of the enlightenment are factored into the equation, China is an abject failure.

Nice indeed to have a civil conversation without insults and personal attacks, even when views differ.
 

Gregs24

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I don't trust any of it. This sums up how I feel about Nazism and Fascism on the right.

https://www.dineshdsouza.com/news/dsouza-shows-nazism-fascism-not-right-wing/
So you quote a far right conspiracy theorist as your source of learning. Come on, you would be the first to sound alarm bells if I quoted that ! It also begs the question why you trust that source (that is pretty much at odds with everything else).

https://www.verfassungsschutz.de/en/fields-of-work/right-wing-extremism/what-is-right-wing-extremism

The Germans know a thing or two about far right groups and neo Nazis - give this a read.

Seriously you can't just blame the 'left' for everything you don't like in the world and even worse blame the left for extreme right wing groups. I realise it makes uncomfortable reading for you that the right could ever get anything wrong but the reality is that extremes of both types are dangerous nutters. I assume you do agree about the existence of far right groups and how dangerous they are ?
 

Gregs24

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From a mathematical perspective, I agree the center will always determine the outcome of elections. However, I would offer that the center has shifted, as the extremes on both ends grow further apart. Even in the States, where we essentially only have two parties, the extreme left and extreme right effectively create a multi-party-like phenomenon. In the past, the extremes could be largely dismissed, because their influence was relatively insignificant. Now the extremes form "the base," a term that wasn't previously used, at least not to the extent that you hear it now. Hence, while the center decides, the base (extremes) wield significant influence. Same is true throughout the West.

Your point is well taken with China. If success is measured on the state's ability to generate wealth at the expense of freedom and self-determination, then China is successful. If, however, individual freedoms as we know them in context of the enlightenment are factored into the equation, China is an abject failure.

Nice indeed to have a civil conversation without insults and personal attacks, even when views differ.
I think we probably agree on a lot of things here anyway !

Do you think a centerist party may develop out of the chaos, as happened in France ?
 

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Weather Man

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So you quote a far right conspiracy theorist as your source of learning. Come on, you would be the first to sound alarm bells if I quoted that ! It also begs the question why you trust that source (that is pretty much at odds with everything else).

https://www.verfassungsschutz.de/en/fields-of-work/right-wing-extremism/what-is-right-wing-extremism

The Germans know a thing or two about far right groups and neo Nazis - give this a read.

Seriously you can't just blame the 'left' for everything you don't like in the world and even worse blame the left for extreme right wing groups. I realise it makes uncomfortable reading for you that the right could ever get anything wrong but the reality is that extremes of both types are dangerous nutters. I assume you do agree about the existence of far right groups and how dangerous they are ?
He is a immigrant history professor without an axe to grind who routinely crushes lefty history professors with his command of facts at his speeches. The far right isn't what is threatening the USA, the far left is.
 

Gregs24

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Weather Man

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Gregs24

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He is a immigrant history professor without an axe to grind who routinely crushes lefty history professors with his command of facts at his speeches. The far right isn't what is threatening the USA, the far left is.
Do you accept far right extremist groups exist and that they are a bad thing ?
 

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Forgot to mention - there is a political party in Germany that was founded by a neo Nazi called 'Die Rechte' (The Right). Now it doesn't take a brain surgeon to work out why they called it that does it ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Right_(Germany)
Sorry, anything quoted from wiki doesn't hack it with me. Also, Republicans in Germany are called ultra-nationalists, so what does that tell you about the political scale in Germany?
 

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Gregs24

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Weather Man

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Do you accept far right extremist groups exist and that they are a bad thing ?
According to some European countries me being a Republican makes me an extreme Rightest.

I have been trying to think of an right extremist bomber here in the USA, Timothy McVeigh came to mind, but he was motivated the Janet Reno's massacre of the Branch Davidians.
 

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Hmmmm, well OK, dolt was unfair in light of acquired insight of the poster and the constraints he operates under.
Appears you are big enough to insult someone, but too big to apologize.

You have no earthly idea what my limitations are, because you don't know me or anything about me.
This is not the post you were responding to when you made your disgusting insult. You were responding to the links below, one of which leads to the German intelligence service's explanation of the history of Nazism in context of neo-Nazism. This was after telling me that I know nothing about political theory, again knowing nothing about me other than the fact that you disagree with the facts I presented and supported with very well qualified, objective sources.

https://www.verfassungsschutz.de/en/fields-of-work/right-wing-extremism/what-is-right-wing-extremism

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13569317.2020.1796347



Your post was fair but 100% at odds with what I experienced, what my son at the University of Colorado, Boulder experienced and my daughter at North Dakota State University experienced. It also makes it impossible for you to understand how it colors my view of what is currently going on in the USA. It is also a serious problem for men attending college, but that is a topic for another day.
I think we also cross-talking on the political spectrum, it is clear that the left is trying very hard to redefine that. That is simply a function of the fact that there is NO faculty to speak on the right left on college campuses and hasn't been for a long time.
You did not respond to the post you are referencing above back when it was posted. In fact, the post you are referring to was my direct response to another member, not to you. As I told that member, I cannot and will not challenge his experience--it is his alone. Mine is different. Those are objective facts or personal opinions and therefore unassailable. But, since you are bringing it up now, I did a bit of objective research, which reinforces my point about the misleading nature of extreme binary statements:

University of Colorado, Boulder: https://www.colorado.edu/center/benson/visiting-scholars/conservative-thought-and-policy


So it is fair to ask how I see the political spectrum. And as I stated before, it is harm to the innocent man by the politic. This chart sums it up fairly well. People like to point out that Pinochet was on the right. He may have been, but he ruled as a dictatorial king (rule of one).


F8DwkDj.jpg
From an academic and historical perspective, I disagree with this chart and your application of left & right. When traced to their French roots, it is pretty easy to see how the terms naturally evolved and have more recently been hijacked by politicians to the point that they have become meaningless. Specific to the chart, it misapplies the term "monarchy." Neither Nazis nor Soviet communists had monarchs. They were ruled by authoritarians, but the rulers were by no mean monarchs. It then transitions to oligarchy, and misrepresents that as well. The most accurate example of an Oligarchy would be the present day Russian Federation--may also be considered a Kleptocracy. Some may be able to argue that we are trending toward a Oligarchy, but that would be a politically charged discussion that would require substantial objective evidence to be of any use. Next, the idea that democracy will, per force, result in mob rule ignores the Swiss model. It also ignores the fact that the United States of America is a Democratic Republic. Not sure who views anarchy as a ideal model. I believe most conclude that life under that construct would be "nasty, brutish and short."

So, your view is your view. However, beyond opinion, your chart is academically and historically inaccurate. That's neither a left nor right opinion; it's just established fact.

Vis-a-vis Russian influence of the American electorate versus actions of the left and the threat it poses. On this topic it isn't even close, I believe the left poses an existential threat to the American way of life. The impact of proposed D policy as currently formulated would result in a significant reduction of quality of life for most Americans.

Are the Russians trying to influence Americans, undoubtedly, how much? That is the question no one can quantify. In a sea of bots from all parties and uncountable companies, what is the impact of the Russian bots. I just don't see it, but maybe someone who lived on twitter and such would ingest more?
Interesting that an American would consider either of our political parties to be a greater threat to our democracy than Russia is. That conclusion highlights the success of Russia's campaign and the naivety of the American public. While the average citizen may not have the tools or resources to attribute nefarious Russian actions to their source, our nation does have people who do that on its behalf. There is far more to Russia's ceaseless attack on our democracy than tweets. In fact, much of what they propagate is repeated by our media--conservative and liberal leaning alike. Moreover, if one does objective research, they will note that Russia's greatest success is made through conservative outlets. Again, that is objective fact.


Your comment on ice operations was thoughtful.

So anyway, I was unfair to call you a dolt and lefty, but we still have our disagreements.
I don't know what that closing sentence means, but I hope it makes you feel better about your indignant treatment of others.
 

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American ultra right terrorist attacks have come primarily in the form of mass shootings rather than bombings. This is because after the Timothy McVeigh attack, we made it more difficult to acquire explosive components. Implying that McVeigh's attack was somehow justified is unconscionable.
 

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Lmao! D'Souza would be just another troll to shrug off if it wasn't for his incredibly rich father.

Once again a shock conservative commentator makes a name for himself by being dishonest and prods the ignorant into thinking they're know it alls. No one expects shock conservative commentator to be truthful, rather, only to sell clicks and drama.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...rlson-facts-trump-playboy-model-a9573436.html

D'Souza's tweets out completely ridiculous claims that sound like that know-it-all who reads an MSM page on topic X for the first time and now acts like he is an expert. "Did you know that Nazi is actually a German compound for National Socialist??/>?! Socialism is a leftist ideology.... so that means that Nazis are leftists!!!"

This guy has an ivy league education, he knows that what he's saying is bullshit. He's transparently pandering to the Alex Jones crowd because it fills his pockets effortlessly. He's a felon and a fraud but it doesn't matter because he's a conservative and why hold him to a high standard when there are libs to own?
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