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Wider tire or lighter wheel, which do you choose?

Bossdog

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The PP2 has 10.5" wheel that's 31 lbs and accepts a 305 tire with 11" if tread
Apex has a 10" wheel that weighs 24 lbs. Michelin Sport cup 2 has a 275x35 that goes on a 10" wheel with 9.5" of tread. NT01's have a 285/35 that is about 1/2" taller that the 305 rear.
Which do you choose for road course track days? +7 lb's per corner with 11" of tread up front.
or, loose 7Lb's per corner and give up 1.5" of tread in the front.
I haven't tracked my 2019 PP2 yet, I don't know how much it pushes yet. Most muscle cars push like the pigs they are.

Any other track day options out there for wheel / tire combinations ?

Please share any experience on how much the stock set up on PP2 pushes
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EFI

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+7 lb's per corner with 11" of tread up front.
or, loose 7Lb's per corner and give up 1.5" of tread in the front.
Why not both? If you're going to spend the money on new wheels, get ones that are both lighter and wider. Another option are SVE or Project6G wheels, they are all quite a bit lighter than the OEM ones for the same width.

But out of those 2 choices you mentioned, more tread will yield better performance than a narrower but lighter wheel.
 
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Bossdog

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Why not both? If you're going to spend the money on new wheels, get ones that are both lighter and wider. Another option are SVE or Project6G wheels, they are all quite a bit lighter than the OEM ones for the same width.
I looked at both Project6G and SVE for 10.5" front wheel options (like the Stock PPE wheels), both only offer 10" front, just like APEX. Unless I'm missing something.
 

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Dana Pants

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11 inch wide wheels. Square. With extended studs, spacers, and camber plates up front. There is no other solution worth spending money on.

Michelin or nitto tire is not the way.

For durability, use rs4. For speed, use re-71rs. The kumho is becoming quite popular these days as well.
 
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Tucker80

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I went with SVE R357. The 11" wide is quoted at 22.83lbs each which is pretty incredible.

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Tires have the most impact on handling.
 

NightmareMoon

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Tire compound, then width, then wheel+tire weight is last.

Somewhere in there wider tires with more mass may have more thermal capacity before they overheat. IDK. Sounds good on paper.

We have plenty of power to rotate heavy wheels. What we don't have is grip in the corner. Wheel weight may have a small impact on road holding over bumpy sections of tarmac, but on a flat road course its shouldn't be a factor at all. The accel/decel benefits of a light wheel (on a 3700lb car) are overrated. Rotating mass is the most significant at low speeds (like first gear), and not that significant at higher speeds where you're mainly pushing the engine against aerodynamic drag (like at a track). If you must have the absolute fastest setup, then sure get a light forged wheel like the Apex VS-5RS and a light tire carcass like the A052, but the time gain may be pretty trivial (at least for the weight factor)

So for time trials with 200TW tires, go for the new RE71RS (19" 295 sizes) or Yokohama A052 (18" only). For lapping with less concern for times, try an endurance tire like the RS4.

Nitto NT01 doesn't seem any better than the old RE71R and is probably slower than the newest 200TW tires, despite the treadwear rating. Sport Cup 2s are good for track (they tolerate the heat well), but you're basically throwing money down a hole.

RT660 is pretty good too.
 

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Ewheels

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So for time trials with 200TW tires, go for the new RE71RS (19" 295 sizes)
Sadly, those only go up to 285 in 19"
That would be my go-to tire but I only have 19" wheels 😔


Anyone want to sell me their 18x11 Apex set?
 

GTP

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The PP2 has 10.5" wheel that's 31 lbs and accepts a 305 tire with 11" if tread
Apex has a 10" wheel that weighs 24 lbs. Michelin Sport cup 2 has a 275x35 that goes on a 10" wheel with 9.5" of tread. NT01's have a 285/35 that is about 1/2" taller that the 305 rear.
Which do you choose for road course track days? +7 lb's per corner with 11" of tread up front.
or, loose 7Lb's per corner and give up 1.5" of tread in the front.
I haven't tracked my 2019 PP2 yet, I don't know how much it pushes yet. Most muscle cars push like the pigs they are.

Any other track day options out there for wheel / tire combinations ?

Please share any experience on how much the stock set up on PP2 pushes
Our Mustangs push, especially going into slow corners. It can be mitigated somewhat with heavy trail braking. Practice that technique (but without an instructor as many don't like that technique for novices).

My advice to you is to first put on camber plates. Those will help make your fronts last longer AND gain you some front traction. Just loosen the 3 nuts and push the strut all the way inboard. That will put you at ~2.8* camber. Pairs well with the OEM ~1.5-1.8* rear camber.

I assume your car came with Mich PS4's. Those are good "starter" track tires. If they aren't squealing then you aren't going fast enough. They wear long. They will teach you to drive smooth, on the late-apex line, and how to steer with the throttle. They last so long that you can put in many track days as you learn your limits and the car's limits before having to replace them.

Next, I recommend you not get too carried away spending money on suspension, or at least do it wisely and gradually. Different springs/shocks/bars won't transform the handling of a 3900# car on PS4's. I would put in spherical bearings, stiffer bars, and get a really good track alignment before getting wheels/tires.

If you do decide to get new wheels/tires, you have the opportunity to change your OEM staggered set to daily use, and get a wider/lighter/stickier square set for track. Still, it is tricky to get anything over 10" wide to fit up front.

Finally - and I can't emphasize this enough - you will find that as you get faster on track you will run into cooling issues. And this happens even with 275 PS4's. I still struggle with brake cooling, both front and rear. I spent >$1000 for a DIY auxiliary oil cooler to mitigate limp mode. I am putting together a DIY diff cooler now. I have a plan to add a cooler for my A10 next.

I just want to see you spend your money in a more "as needed" order.
 

Hack

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My preference is to not worry about super expensive wheels and the perfect tires to optimize lap time. Especially for an HPDE type of event where the goal is to learn, have fun and be safe. The laps aren't timed and based on your question I assume you aren't a professional driver.

I would use a summer performance tire with around 300 tread wear rating or whatever you currently have on the car and then just go and have fun.

Track days are super expensive. There's no need to wait to go until you have a perfect setup. I'm guilty of doing that and can you tell I miss the track?
 

VictorH

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BossDog, read this thread carefully. There is lots of really good advice here, perhaps one of the most thoughtful and intelligent series of responses in a long time.
Everyone has their own preference, for street I'm running staggered and for track this year for the first time, I'll be running 19x11 square, mainly for cost reasons.
You follow the advice of these previous posts and you can't go wrong.
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