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Why No Adaptive Cruise on Mach1?

T.O.Bullitt

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Try five hours on a straight, flat multi-lane highway with numerous speedtraps that you've driven dozens of times before and get back to me.
I love my MR2 and I wouldn't say it was a penalty-box for those drives. But there's more comfortable ways to travel that trip, no question. Though I should mention that I'm semi-retiring my old '2, now, given its age and the availability of the more comfortable Bullitt for the trip.
... which would be even more comfortable if it had ACC!
:wink:
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dhborden

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Maybe it has something to do with what Ford assumed the manual-transmission take rate for the Mach 1 was going to be. That would almost certainly have figured in to the GT350 situation.

I'm thinking - from experience - that a MT driver is apt to use the transmission to keep engine revs where throttle response will be adequate for conditions. I'm guessing that clutch usage cancels the set speed.
My 2015 GT M6 has ACC (love it!) and so IMO it has nothing to do with the MT take rate. It also is unlikely to have anything to do with weight (which the hood struts does) since I believe nearly all the pieces needed for ACC are already in the car, except for the switches on the steering wheel -- a couple ounces at best.
 

Norm Peterson

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My 2015 GT M6 has ACC (love it!) and so IMO it has nothing to do with the MT take rate.
My point was that the GT350 was MT-only, and I'm suspecting that Ford expected the Mach 1 to have a higher MT take rate than the non-Mach 1 Mustangs.


Nobody's talking about weight here.


Norm
 

Norm Peterson

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Try five hours on a straight, flat multi-lane highway with numerous speedtraps that you've driven dozens of times before and get back to me.
Been there, done that too. All it takes is a little right-foot discipline.

It really wouldn't make any difference to me to be driving your MR2, my '08, your Bullitt, or any of the other cars I've owned in the past 50 years over that sort of route. Once I've settled into the drive, anyway.


Norm
 

shogun32

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I'm guessing that clutch usage cancels the set speed.
the standard cruise on both my GT and SS do not self-cancel on clutch pedal action.

I drive even my F150 for hour after hour using manual throttle control. And if I use CC I instinctively cancel or tweak the set speed when needed as have millions of people before me. I totally fail to see the point of ACC except as a goo-gah nobody asked for that just increases failure modes (software+hardware) and increases costs/profit opportunities that inevitably promote mentally checked-out driving.

I guess we could classify ACC as equivalent to altitude and directional-hold auto-pilot that "frees" the operator from having to do any physical activity of controlling the ship and a direct atrophy of muscle memory and ability to hand-fly.

Ignoring the cost factor to make a new plastic bumper mold, I think we'll find the lack of ACC to be because of signals interference from proximate parts.
 
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Charlemagne

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All it takes is a little right-foot discipline.
I have to admit that in some cars it's rather hard and after hours of driving the foot was uncomfortable or even starting to have muscle cramps. Depends on the car and its gas pedal, but (regular) cruise control takes this off the equation, in normal freeway traffic when maintaining 130 km/h, this is where cruise control is heaven for me, you just stand by to brake in case of need and otherwise let your feet rest. And I don't go over 500 km trips, unlike the huge distances you have in USA.
 

Norm Peterson

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the standard cruise on both my GT and SS do not self-cancel on clutch pedal action.
Now that's unexpected. Near as I can remember from very brief testing of CC in some of my cars, clutch pedal action always canceled CC. I think on the WRX it's only a temporary cancel, that you can hit the Resume button and it'd go back to functioning again. But it always got kicked off immediately.

For your SS at least, the owner's manual does say that CC disengages if the clutch is pressed for several seconds (I have a fair collection of OMs for cars that I don't own).


I guess we could classify ACC as equivalent to altitude and directional-hold auto-pilot that "frees" the operator from having to do any physical activity of controlling the ship and a direct atrophy of muscle memory and ability to hand-fly.
"Use it or lose it".

Some years ago I used to have legitimate and safe opportunity to practice threshold braking on a daily basis (toward the end of my morning commute). I know I've lost a step in that department now that I'm retired, though I do think it'd come back with daily practice or a few track days in quick succession.


Ignoring the cost factor to make a new plastic bumper mold, I think we'll find the lack of ACC to be because of signals interference from proximate parts.
Interesting . . . especially with ever more sources of RF and other energies being broadcast all around us.


Norm
 

Norm Peterson

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I have to admit that in some cars it's rather hard and after hours of driving the foot was uncomfortable or even starting to have muscle cramps. Depends on the car and its gas pedal, but (regular) cruise control takes this off the equation, in normal freeway traffic when maintaining 130 km/h, this is where cruise control is heaven for me, you just stand by to brake in case of need and otherwise let your feet rest. And I don't go over 500 km trips, unlike the huge distances you have in USA.
I'm going to suggest seat positioning matters here. If you insist on chair-like seating - a relatively tall seat cushion to floor height and a more upright seat back angle, that will affect knee and ankle angles which might be forcing you to hold your foot 'up' higher than its more natural position. I can see that leading to cramping, and for that, yeah, you'd want to be able to let your ankle relax back toward a more normal angle.

I have found that with a low seat height and sitting slightly more rearward with a little more seatback angle puts my right foot in its most relaxed position with my heel indexed to the floor midway between the accelerator and brake pedals. Any other position would not be as comfortable - right foot flat on the floor would be horrible - and pedal modulation becomes almost entirely an ankle thing (finer control than whole-leg movements).

Something to think about, anyway.


Norm
 

dhborden

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Now that's unexpected. Near as I can remember from very brief testing of CC in some of my cars, clutch pedal action always canceled CC. I think on the WRX it's only a temporary cancel, that you can hit the Resume button and it'd go back to functioning again. But it always got kicked off immediately.

For your SS at least, the owner's manual does say that CC disengages if the clutch is pressed for several seconds (I have a fair collection of OMs for cars that I don't own).



"Use it or lose it".

Some years ago I used to have legitimate and safe opportunity to practice threshold braking on a daily basis (toward the end of my morning commute). I know I've lost a step in that department now that I'm retired, though I do think it'd come back with daily practice or a few track days in quick succession.



Interesting . . . especially with ever more sources of RF and other energies being broadcast all around us.


Norm
The 2021 Mustang OM says "Note: For vehicles with manual transmission, if you press the clutch pedal for an extended period, this action also cancels the set speed." (page 188).
 

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Norm Peterson

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The 2021 Mustang OM says "Note: For vehicles with manual transmission, if you press the clutch pedal for an extended period, this action also cancels the set speed." (page 188).
IOW, basically the same as the SS Camaro.

I wonder if you were to shift during ACC being active whether you'd get a jerk upon re-engaging the clutch in the different gear . . .

I haven't downloaded any of the 2021 OMs yet. Thanks for the info.


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dhborden

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IOW, basically the same as the SS Camaro.

I wonder if you were to shift during ACC being active whether you'd get a jerk upon re-engaging the clutch in the different gear . . .

I haven't downloaded any of the 2021 OMs yet. Thanks for the info.


Norm
Next time I take out my M6 2015 GT Premium with ACC, I'll see if I can figure out the thresholds.
 

shogun32

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IOW, basically the same as the SS Camaro.
I was referring to the CC staying engaged when upshifting from 4-5-6 and thus clutch use is momentary. I've done 6-5 downshifts with manual throttle blip and CC also remained active but haven't tested it extensively.

I drove 700 miles yesterday (0730-0330hrs) in the F150 and didn't once use CC during the trip nor felt the need/inclination to do so.
 

T.O.Bullitt

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Next time I take out my M6 2015 GT Premium with ACC, I'll see if I can figure out the thresholds.
The first time I noticed that the Bullitt would stay in cruise if I shifted gears it was a surprise.
So today, while driving my old Mister 2, and curious after all the talk in this thread, I shifted while in cruise to see what would happen and, as I expected, cruise cancelled as soon as I pressed the clutch.
The programming required to keep cruise control functioning while shifting a manual is probably beyond what was possible 30 years ago, I suppose.
Which leads me to wonder: Are older cruise control systems essentially “mechanical”?
 

Norm Peterson

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The programming required to keep cruise control functioning while shifting a manual is probably beyond what was possible 30 years ago, I suppose.
Which leads me to wonder: Are older cruise control systems essentially “mechanical”?
Mechanical. I'm sure that on at least one of the cars we owned from that general time frame had CC working the throttle mechanically via its own cable attached to the same sector on the throttle plate shaft. Might have even been as recent as on the 2001 Maxima.

You'd need a CC system that could at least keep the rpms from skyrocketing once load was removed from the engine (even 15% throttle against no load would zing the revs pretty good). I would guess that keeping CC functional while shifting a MT would need something closer to what enables no-lift shifting and/or automatic rev matching.


Norm
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