Why no 4WD Muscle/Pony Cars?

[Bravo]

And by 4WD, I mean the true 4x4 drive train found in trucks and large SUVs.

For instance, the 5.0 V8 in the Mustang is essential that which is found in the 4x4 F150. I would imagine that for an extra price point, Ford could enable a locking front axle that would allow winter state drivers to use the Mustang with confidence year round.

Why hasn't an automaker implemented a truck drive train in a V8 coupe/sedan?

Sponsored

 

[DevilDocAZ]

You have never tried to turn a 4x4 on pavement. It's a lot of stress on the components. Also added weight is the opposite of what we want.

 

[Bravo]

You have never tried to turn a 4x4 on pavement. It's a lot of stress on the components. Also added weight is the opposite of what we want.

You've never tried to turn a RWD car in 6 inches of snow

The concept is that you lock the front axle and only travel at slowish speeds (55mph or less) - the car has to be stopped when enabling the axle lock (which is the big difference between how the use operates 4WD and AWD).

You're correct about the added weight - adding a front axle that can take 50% load would indeed deter some, though I wouldn't even blink at the option to buy a sporty RWD car with this feature.

 

[Kinjirra]

Cuze they don't apply...why would you want a truck drivetrain under a sports car? Designed for two completely different things. Truck drivetrain is designed not only for traction but for heavy duty use... offroad, towing...

On the other hand lots of car manufactures have systems in sports cars for awd...Subaru comes to mind. No need for a locking system in a sports car... If you need that get a truck.

Mustang specific is adding 500lbs of weight easy, less MPG, more powertrain parasitic loss and a complete redesign of the whole chassis. But then it wouldn't be a mustang would it

 

[Bravo]

A Subaru/Audi AWD system would be idea, but it would require Ford to engineer a design from the ground up (they don't have anything like it). A 4WD toggle + axles, however, is something they've been doing for ages.

I don't think adding a 4WD system would turn the car into a truck - in 2WD mode, I would expect it to drive just like a normal Mustang. The only difference being the "get me out of here" switch when things get bad (snow/freezing rain).

...adding towing capability was no where in the scope of this thread 4WD High only.

 

[CVCashmere]

An all wheel drive Dodge Challenger with a V-6 is a very nice alternative in Northern Climates.

CVCashmere

 

[Bravo]

An all wheel drive Dodge Challenger with a V-6 is a very nice alternative in Northern Climates.

CVCashmere

A neighbor of mine grabbed that very car last year - it looks super sharp.

With that said, I don't think I could buy a Dodge... For no real reason really (had an Intrepid that was a very enjoyable to drive piece of crap).

 

[Kinjirra]

A Subaru/Audi AWD system would be idea, but it would require Ford to engineer a design from the ground up (they don't have anything like it). A 4WD toggle + axles, however, is something they've been doing for ages.

I don't think adding a 4WD system would turn the car into a truck - in 2WD mode, I would expect it to drive just like a normal Mustang. The only difference being the "get me out of here" switch when things get bad (snow/freezing rain).

...adding towing capability was no where in the scope of this thread 4WD High only.

Its not just "adding front axles and a diff". Again its going to add at least 500lbs to the car...most of that will be in the nose. That will throw the car balance off by a good bit. The lack of clearance room up front since the car was designed as a RWD car only and the big V-8 sits low to the ground(the chargers only come in v-6...there is a reason for that..weight and space..its also not a truck based system) also plays a huge roll in that.

So yes they would have to develop a system that will sit in the current chassis and you can forget the v-8. The system in the trucks were designed with the truck body in mind(space plus clearance..ground clearance coming into play as well).

Could it be done in the current chassis...with a v6 or the ecoboost prob. Would it be worth the cost ford would have to put into it in the current chassis..not even close. Would it be worth it in the next gen...Ford would have to decide on that but I am 99.9% sure they wont do a part time 4x4 system in a mustang. Maybe at some point a top end AWD system but never a 4x4 setup. What trucks are for.

PS: The towing thing was just to point out the difference in design between the truck systems and car systems and what their jobs are. And I agree on the Dodge...the new Charger Daytona 392 is sharp though

 

[mustang1]

And by 4WD, I mean the true 4x4 drive train found in trucks and large SUVs.

For instance, the 5.0 V8 in the Mustang is essential that which is found in the 4x4 F150. I would imagine that for an extra price point, Ford could enable a locking front axle that would allow winter state drivers to use the Mustang with confidence year round.

Why hasn't an automaker implemented a truck drive train in a V8 coupe/sedan?

search on ebay for some 4x4 (or FX4) stickers, and get you some snow tires.

 

[Bravo]

Its not just "adding front axles and a diff". Again its going to add at least 500lbs to the car...most of that will be in the nose.

Where are you getting 500lbs from? Most truck manufacturers quote a mere 50lb-100lb increase, with the highest that I can find being under 300lbs (it's likely that increase includes the weight of a larger engine).

If an engineer were to design the drive train for non towing purposes, I'd imagine they could shave weight down to 50lbs, which in the big picture is nothing for an option that would allow for bulletproof winter driving.

As for snow tires, 2WD A/S < 4WD A/S < 2WD Snow < 4WD Snow.

Snow tires help, but it's no replacement for snow tires + AWD.

 

[Quackfoo]

Where are you getting 500lbs from? Most truck manufacturers quote a mere 50lb-100lb increase, with the highest that I can find being under 300lbs (it's likely that increase includes the weight of a larger engine).

If an engineer were to design the drive train for non towing purposes, I'd imagine they could shave weight down to 50lbs, which in the big picture is nothing for an option that would allow for bulletproof winter driving.

As for snow tires, 2WD A/S < 4WD A/S < 2WD Snow < 4WD Snow.

Snow tires help, but it's no replacement for snow tires + AWD.

Having done the awd and rwd in 6+ inches of snow I can say... doesn't matter that much really. If the snow is high enough to bottom out the car and get stuck, awd isn't going to help. I've never even been close to getting stuck with Nokians in a rear wheel drive. Yeah I can't accelerate quite a fast from a dead stop, but you shouldn't be going that fast anyway.

Besides, it's far more important to be able to STOP in ice and snow than to go. Awd isn't going to help you stop. Everyone is always worried about getting stuck, I'm far more worried about not being able to stop and hitting someone. It's the not stopping that lands someone in the hospital and the car in the body shop.

 

[Bravo]

Having done the awd and rwd in 6+ inches of snow I can say... doesn't matter that much really. If the snow is high enough to bottom out the car and get stuck, awd isn't going to help. I've never even been close to getting stuck with Nokians in a rear wheel drive. Yeah I can't accelerate quite a fast from a dead stop, but you shouldn't be going that fast anyway.

Besides, it's far more important to be able to STOP in ice and snow than to go. Awd isn't going to help you stop. Everyone is always worried about getting stuck, I'm far more worried about not being able to stop and hitting someone. It's the not stopping that lands someone in the hospital and the car in the body shop.

My RWD snow driving is very limited, but what I've learned over the past 10 years or so is that AWD w/ snow tires really shines over FWD w/ snow tires when climbing hills. Aside from that, if you have snow tires, both drive trains are relatively equal.

The issue with climbing hills (they are everywhere where I live) with FWD is that weight naturally shifts to the rear, causing traction to be instantly lost - especially on torque-ie vehicles. This leaves me to wonder if RWD w/ snows might cure this issue...

Everyone in my area says RWD in snow is asking to end up stranded or in a ditch, but I'm starting to think that it's just a myth that is getting blown out of proportion.

 

[Quackfoo]

My RWD snow driving is very limited, but what I've learned over the past 10 years or so is that AWD w/ snow tires really shines over FWD w/ snow tires when climbing hills. Aside from that, if you have snow tires, both drive trains are relatively equal.

The issue with climbing hills (they are everywhere where I live) with FWD is that weight naturally shifts to the rear, causing traction to be instantly lost - especially on torque-ie vehicles. This leaves me to wonder if RWD w/ snows might cure this issue...

Everyone in my area says RWD in snow is asking to end up stranded or in a ditch, but I'm starting to think that it's just a myth that is getting blown out of proportion.

AWD can make bad drivers feel a little more confident, and if you had dirt roads AND snow to deal with I'd probably want an AWD. Not a car though,
I'd want a suv or truck(mainly because of how uneven dirt roads can be, for clearance) Everyone seems to forget that for decades all anyone had was RWD cars and they generally managed ok. And tires today are far better. Heck my grandfather drove his RWD 1972 chevy pickup for over 30 years and he lived in the backwoods of Missouri.

Most of the people who complain about rwd in snow have never actually driven one, they just heard some story from the 70's and keep repeating it.

On paved roads though where you aren't too worried about big holes in the road, rwd is fine. I say that though and 2 out of the 3 car choices I might go to next year are awd (has nothing do with snow, I just like hatchbacks and hate fwd)

 

[Bravo]

Most of the people who complain about rwd in snow have never actually driven one, they just heard some story from 70's and keep repeating it.

I mostly fall in this group

But as an FYI - we get well over a hundred inches of snow per year, and currently have two vehicles in the garage - one FWD, one AWD (Subaru), both with the same General Arctic snow tires.

The difference is night and day - I'm an extremely cautious driver in snowy conditions, but the Subaru is stupidly planted even in 6+ inches of snow.

My FWD car will literally get stuck on the slightest incline, even with snow tires. The car has a bit too much torque and not enough weight over the front axle.

If I had my way, our next pair of cars would be a Subaru and Mustang - I'm lucky enough that I can take the Subaru to work and car pool with the wife if there is even a threat of snow.

 

[mustang1]

if a car needs AWD to climb up a hill, what happens trying to go down a hill ? AWD won't help in that case.

Sponsored