Why I don't buy Chevy from Ford Dealers.....

[steveo1960]

... or Ford from Chevy dealers etc.... So passed by a local Ford dealer, mom and pop operation with mostly trucks because I live in a farming community, sort of... So they had a beautiful 2018 Camaro 2SS vert with 6k miles on it. Car was loaded with options... I'm brand agnostic and looking for my next car so I look at anything... Walked in, I'm local and they know me, so they tossed me the keys and told me if I needed gas to go to the local station and have them put it on the dealer's tab.. Like I said, really cool dealer... So I've been following all the boards, Mustang, Camaro, Vette, Dodge etc.. and I know the trouble spots.. So I did a figure 8 in the parking lot and the rear end groaned like an 80 yo with arthritis.. Alright, took the car out on the road and the tranny shifted really weird.. Stumbling between gears and vibrating.. Well thsat was enough for me. Back to the lot.. Talked to the sales girl and she told me they just got the car so hadn't gone over it yet... I suggested they do just that.
To be honest, between Mustang BBQ, Camaro tranny/rear end, Dodge rocker arms and overall lack of QC I'm getting disgusted on my pride and joy, good old American muscle cars.. I'm an old fart, 59yo and I did drive the 340 Dusters, Camaros etc of the early 70's so I sort of know what cuts it and what doesn't. I think it's really sad where someone like me, a true fanboy, is actually thinking of going foreign, maybe German, due to the American manufacturers inability to build a quality product. And yes, I know the downside of the German and Asian cars, but honestly it's nothing compared to engine ticks, trannys that require 6 flushes to make them work and for how long nobody knows and so forth.

Am, I the only one?

Makes me want to keep my 2003 Mustang GT Vert Centennial which is flawless at 176,000 miles, do the timing chains and maybe some other work and put a KB blower on it...Rear end is new gears. Tranny (auto) has a j-Mod and cooler and runs fine... Might be a better option... I dunno... Thanks for listening to me whine... I appreciate it!!

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[Schwerin]

Old cars had tons of problems too. My Dad and his brothers grew up with El Camino SS's, Dusters, Falcons, Camaro SS, Mach1, and other lower trims of Mustangs and Camaros and they ALL still had tons of issues. Same with Trucks at that time. The difference was that you didn't have the internet to hear about it all and less stringent recall laws. Dealers also had a much lower reason to care back then as you had fewer other dealers to go to. That was a huge reason why Japanese cars picked up so well. The Gas prices had a lot to do with it, but they were WORLDS better on quality even in the 70's and 80's.

This is part of why I laugh when people say "American Quality". If we had such amazing quality why did it takes us 30+years to catch up to Japanese car quality?

 

[steveo1960]

Old cars had tons of problems too. My Dad and his brothers grew up with El Camino SS's, Dusters, Falcons, Camaro SS, Mach1, and other lower trims of Mustangs and Camaros and they ALL still had tons of issues. Same with Trucks at that time. The difference was that you didn't have the internet to hear about it all and less stringent recall laws. Dealers also had a much lower reason to care back then as you had fewer other dealers to go to. That was a huge reason why Japanese cars picked up so well. The Gas prices had a lot to do with it, but they were WORLDS better on quality even in the 70's and 80's.

This is part of why I laugh when people say "American Quality". If we had such amazing quality why did it takes us 30+years to catch up to Japanese car quality?

Yes they did. Especially in the 80's where computer technology was new and the sensors and control devices were more electro mechanical, like metering rods in carbs that were controlled by solenoids etc... This was mainly emissions type nightmares. And it was bad. REALLY bad. But my point is, the basics, and I mean engine basics, and engine that doesn't tick, a tranny that shifts smooth, a rear end like a Ford 9 inch, that just works and so forth seem to be problematic these days. And that's what bothers me. Seriously ask an old timer the last time they screwed with a rear end (girl friends don't count!) and they will tell you as long as it matches the power you are putting out, they just work... These days? It's a crap shoot... Then there is the Mustang vibration that Ford still can't seem to fix... I dunno... I have zero faith in American muscle cars these days and I'm a muscle car fanboy...

 

[Schwerin]

They also were not taking as much abuse in power or RPM. A car rated 400 back then isnt the same 400 as today. And when the oil prices hit they only had to endure like 175hp.

 

[Interceptor]

I grew up back then too, polyglass tires lasted 5k miles, only way to make one stop fast was put it in a ditch, 10 miles a gallon you hoped. And 90 miles an hour felt like 130 in today's cars.

Today's 45k poney cars have more tech than a 60s moon rocket, there are always lemons, usually you can find them on dealer lots with low miles.

If I see a car with one bright tail light and one dim taillight I know it is German made, a power lock button on a BMW mini is outrageous to replace. Go for it!

 

[Hack]

Many newer cars are really great. I think many of the issues are over-exaggerated on these forums. Having said that, I didn't really want to own my GT350 out of warranty. I loved the car, but reliability concerns were definitely part of the reason why I let it go.

And I don't agree that cars made across either pond are necessarily better. Euro stuff is very expensive. My experience with Japanese brands is they are very fragile if you drive them like I do. The American cars are built to take some abuse.

 

[302@12psi]

It's a nothing burger. Every car has issues. Go ask Porsche folks about IMS bearings, Benz guys about suspension, Audi folks about carbon build up, M3 about rear sub frames, and on and on.

Honestly you are looking at a new car with low miles that got traded in. I'm sure the previous owner took a lost and just moved on. Until you pull the warranty file at Chevy you'll never know.

What folks complain about in the new Mustang is still "unfounded" as far as I'm concerned. Sure there are some that were replaced for oil issues but even folks that have had "ticking motors" replaced didn't complain about oil usage or feeling down on power.

Those "good ol'e days" you describe just weren't. Those cars were going to make it 70k miles or abuse without requiring rebuilds. The motors weren't revving out to 7500 RPM's and giving you the ability to get 20 MPG if driven correctly. There's trade offs in this world. Get what you want, enjoy the fact there is a warranty, and motor on. If you want to jump into German cars have at it but you'll likely find the same sort of complaints on their web forums. Porsche recalled and replaced entire engines in one of the GT offerings not long ago. It happens.

 

[Shifting_Gears]

Sounds like the previous owner traded it in to “cure” the 8 speed studder plague.

 

[Jmtoast]

"Makes me want to keep my 2003 Mustang GT Vert Centennial which is flawless at 176,000 miles"

You got lucky. I can't remember a car i've had, going back to the 80's, that I didn't have problems with eventually. These new cars are even worse. They're so advanced. I wouldn't even own one without a warranty unless it's paid off. Which is why I went Roush on my supercharger instead of better options that really wanted.

 

[Strokerswild]

I'm the ripe old age of 50 and can agree with the OP to a large degree....

I'm done with FCA after two lemony-scented Jeeps. I'm really hoping my new F-150 (a week old) is as good as my '04 was, which saw me through almost nine years with zero repairs. Both new Jeep Wranglers I owned between late 2012 and a week ago were reliability nightmares.

Meanwhile, I bought a '11 VW Tiguan for the wife back in late 2010, which was my first foreign vehicle ever. It checked all the boxes and I drove a lot of alternatives, basically everything in its class. Eight years later it was still rock solid and reliable with not one issue (and it was well used, like a truck sometimes), so I bought another one. This one is looking to be a repeat of the first one, and the fit and finish is far better than my Mustang's. Not much not to like.

As far as domestics, I've had my best luck with Fords, but I'm not a fanboy to the extent that I won't consider an import.

 

[Shifting_Gears]

The most reliable vehicles I have had:

2013 Focus ST: Two batteries both under warranty, small recall work and an evap hose I replaced myself. Owned it from 16k-74k.

2004 Grand Cherokee 4.7 HO. Radiator split, rear main seal was replaced (just to leak again) and I had to replace a transmission shift module. Owned 74k-131k. I really miss that Jeep.

2000 Mustang GT: Other than a lot of tires, I had minimal issues from this ride and it was worked HARD. Clutch went due to drag racing so I’m not counting that and the axle needed a rebuild due to the same reason. However, other stuff: IAC valve, intake manifold cracked (missed the class action suite by a few months), brake caliper seized, had an issue with the fuel filler neck spewing gas back out if I didn’t fill up super slow. There was other miscellaneous items but I never had an engine or transmission failure, no electric nightmares, etc. Owned from 93k to 164k approx and started spraying nitrous at the ripe mileage of 140k.

1997 Jeep Cherokee... buckle up for this one
Master cylinder (twice)
Water pump (twice)
Radiator
Crank position sensor
ECU (died with the crank sensor)
Idle air control valve
Broth front calipers froze
Rear drums destroyed themselves (it never really had rear brakes after a certain point...)
Power steering pump (twice)
AC compressor
Both from hubs assembly’s (sounded like a rock grinder driving down the road)
Exhaust manifold cracked but I never fixed it
Oil leaked from every possible spot

But that thing was an absolute TANK. I had it from 121k - 219k and it was my DD, race car, off road champ, hauler, whatever.. it didn’t care. It was butt ass ugly but like a fine wine, the drivetrain seemed to get stronger with age. Lol. I miss the 4.0, that thing took a drink once in a mud hole and sounded like it was cammed for about 15min until it worked through clearing itself up (water got in intake but did not hydrolock). I used to get it on 3 wheels ascending or decending hills. Amazing I didn’t kill my self with that beast.

1989 Ram 50. Royal shitbox. Was never a DD and was intended to be a V8 swap platform but ended up selling it to a neighbor who probably scrapped it after it wouldn’t EVER run right.

Had an 86 FZ750 Yamaha that was a good bike until one day it started spewing gas on the ground and I sold it after I lost interest.

Jury is out on my GT. So far the only major issue has been an intake manifold replacement due to the IMRC rod snapping.

 

[EcoVert]

I've been buying new Ford since 1982 and the only one I've ever had a problem with is the wife's 2015 Edge. It was one of the water leak cars but my dealer went to bat for me and we got that one replaced. A hellva good record I think. My latest Ford is a 2019 Ranger and I'm well pleased with it. The new Fords I've owned are

1982 Escort GL
1985 LTD midsized
1991 Mercury Tracer 4D
1997 F150
2000 Mercury Mystic
2002 Focus ZX3
2005 Escape XLT
2011 Escape Limited
2013 Escape Titanium
2015 Mustang convertible
2015 Edge XLT water leak car replace by Ford
2015 Edge XLT
2018 Edge Titanium
2019 Ranger XLT SuperCrew 4x4

 

[Strokerswild]

Now that I think of it, the original battery was still in my '04 F-150 after almost nine years and still going strong even after all the MN winters....

 

[Linkster1666]

If you look at this way, like the manufacturer does, is total production versus lemons. So let's say 1% of all mustangs have a significant problem. Ten million mustangs produced in 2018 so that's 100,000 cars that are junk.

I doubt that a full 1% of all mustangs are junk, but you get the idea.

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