Why DIDN'T you get a camaro?

[ice445]

The Coyote is a better platform for FI. This was the case NA as well but with recent developments in the past year, this is no longer the case. Especially when it comes to bang for the buck mods.

The LT2 IM from the C8 can be obtained for $200 and is a direct swap for the LT1. You can even run it without issue on a stock tune. People are picking up 20-25 horsepower and torque throughout the powerband untuned plus you’ll make power past 6,000rpms unlike with the LT1 IM. You can pickup another 10 horsepower up top ported. With a tune, there’s more power to be had with either 93 or E85.

As recent as 2019, the LSx was looked at more favorably than the LTx and the LSx is still a much easier platform to work with, think cam swaps, but mod for mod, the LTx will outperform the LSx in every instance NA.

Makes sense. The coyote does pick up serious gains with e85, but its still limited by being only 5 liters. It's already pretty optimized. The LT has more displacement which leaves more on the table.

 

[WildHorse]

but its still limited by being only 5 liters

But not RPM. 8000 is a great equalizer.

 

[Adamone92]

But not RPM. 8000 is a great equalizer.

Yeah. Depends what you want. The lt1 has i believe 300ftlb of torque by 1k rpm. Some like having to rev the engine out, others dont. Something for everyone as they say.

 

[ice445]

Yeah. Depends what you want. The lt1 has i believe 300ftlb of torque by 1k rpm. Some like having to rev the engine out, others dont. Something for everyone as they say.

1000rpm seems really low to be making that much torque, im gonna look for a dyno sheet. Coyote is making 300ft/lbs right under 3,000RPM, so its not as gutless in the low end as people complain it is. It definitely doesn't give you the butt dyno feel of the Camaro though until higher up.

 

[Adamone92]

1000rpm seems really low to be making that much torque, im gonna look for a dyno sheet. Coyote is making 300ft/lbs right under 3,000RPM, so its not as gutless in the low end as people complain it is. It definitely doesn't give you the butt dyno feel of the Camaro though until higher up.

Yep. Thats what ive seen.

The camaro is kind of the in between of the coyote and the hemi. Low end torque but has a fairly high redline as well. Doesnt rev out as high as the coyote or has as much torque as the mopar..but does a little of both. From what ive seen at least.

 

[Norm Peterson]

A simple redesign would solve most of people's issues.

This ^^^

An inch lower beltline and maybe a fraction of an inch more actual roof height might be all it would have taken.

I get that there's such a thing as having "too much" glass height . . .

But even a milder top chop than what the guys above are doing is still too much for a normal-use-by-everybody kind of car . . .

Norm

 

[ihc95]

I'm struggling with the Camaro > Mustang NA vs NA argument. I don't really care about the most extreme NA builds from either car, more about what owners will actually do to theirs. Of course in dig races the higher torque engine will have an advantage given similar power, but the Coyote's superior top end seem to give it the advantage is roll racing (which truly determines the faster car). From my understanding both cars can run E85 on the factory fuel system, but there is clearly more room on the table for the Mustang due to the PI+DI and its 16 injectors (also no carbon buildup on the Coyote, unlike the LT1) Are Camaro guys including heads and cams as well? If so that's fine, but that is internal engine work, not "bolt-ons." Does the C8 LT2 IM even fit under the hood of the Camaro? Also, Ford Performance sells an intake/tune combo good for 19hp/18tq with warranty, not ground breaking at all but shows the factory's confidence in the engine.

And regarding the interior quality argument. I can't speak for the "regular" Premium Mustang, but the 401A interior was clearly better than the 2SS, and I drove them back to back.

 

[ihc95]

On the topic of the FPP, doesn't it also add a 40ish ft-lb lump down lower as well? That's an even more telling vote of confidence than the top end gains. This motor is an amazing piece of tech.

It does have that low rpm bump. Admittedly I was sort of down on the kit at first but I'm now considering it for the torque and revised A10 tuning. No e85 in my area so that's not an option.

 

[jwt]

Norm

OT but goddamm that looks good. Like something wiley coyote would drive to catch road runner. Not sold on the matt paint but everything else locks phenomenal.

 

[AlmostFamous]

I'm struggling with the Camaro > Mustang NA vs NA argument. I don't really care about the most extreme NA builds from either car, more about what owners will actually do to theirs. Of course in dig races the higher torque engine will have an advantage given similar power, but the Coyote's superior top end seem to give it the advantage is roll racing (which truly determines the faster car). From my understanding both cars can run E85 on the factory fuel system, but there is clearly more room on the table for the Mustang due to the PI+DI and its 16 injectors (also no carbon buildup on the Coyote, unlike the LT1) Are Camaro guys including heads and cams as well? If so that's fine, but that is internal engine work, not "bolt-ons." Does the C8 LT2 IM even fit under the hood of the Camaro? Also, Ford Performance sells an intake/tune combo good for 19hp/18tq with warranty, not ground breaking at all but shows the factory's confidence in the engine.

And regarding the interior quality argument. I can't speak for the "regular" Premium Mustang, but the 401A interior was clearly better than the 2SS, and I drove them back to back.

The LT2 IM fits with the stock Camaro hood with zero clearance issues (C7 owners need a 2” cowl). While a 20 horsepower and torque gain isn’t impressive at first glance, keep in mind that’s with the stock tune and the gains are across the powerband. Most importantly, it widens and shifts the curve up from 5,500rpms to 6,500rpms. The LT2 IM is as dramatic of an improvement for the LT1 as a gen 2 Mustang owner swapping to the 18+ GT manifold (former 2016 GT owner).

To give you an idea, with the addition of just the LT2 IM (non-ported) and cat deletes, this guy went from running a 11.98 to 11.45 @ 121.50MPH in the 1/4 mile.

It’s only a matter of time before someone cracks 10s with the LT2 IM on stock heads and cam if it hasn’t already happened.

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=582416

 

[RocketGuy3]

• Styling
• Visibility
• Pricing
• Sound
• Most importantly: the redesigned Camaro wasn't even available when I was ready to buy, but from what little we knew at the time, it didn't seem like anything earth-shattering compared to the Mustang.
  

Speed isn't everything, and the Camaro and Mustang are close enough that if you enjoy other things about the Mustang, you're better off saving a few bucks and focusing on becoming a better, smoother, faster driver... assuming you even go to the track. And if you don't, why do you care about lap times even a little bit?

 

[Adamone92]

I'm struggling with the Camaro > Mustang NA vs NA argument. I don't really care about the most extreme NA builds from either car, more about what owners will actually do to theirs. Of course in dig races the higher torque engine will have an advantage given similar power, but the Coyote's superior top end seem to give it the advantage is roll racing (which truly determines the faster car). From my understanding both cars can run E85 on the factory fuel system, but there is clearly more room on the table for the Mustang due to the PI+DI and its 16 injectors (also no carbon buildup on the Coyote, unlike the LT1) Are Camaro guys including heads and cams as well? If so that's fine, but that is internal engine work, not "bolt-ons." Does the C8 LT2 IM even fit under the hood of the Camaro? Also, Ford Performance sells an intake/tune combo good for 19hp/18tq with warranty, not ground breaking at all but shows the factory's confidence in the engine.

And regarding the interior quality argument. I can't speak for the "regular" Premium Mustang, but the 401A interior was clearly better than the 2SS, and I drove them back to back.

i completely disagree with the interior. I had a 401A interior that i sold and got my 2ss 1le. maybe you didnt drive a 1le, but the interior is leaps and bounds better than the 401A i had in my opinion.

FBO with heads and cam camaros are pushing 600whp easy nowadays from what ive seen. The camaro gets more bang for your buck on mods on a NA build.

 

[Jmtoast]

Yep. Thats what ive seen.

The camaro is kind of the in between of the coyote and the hemi. Low end torque but has a fairly high redline as well. Doesnt rev out as high as the coyote or has as much torque as the mopar..but does a little of both. From what ive seen at least.

Camaro is kind of girlie...

 

[AlmostFamous]

interesting that they found that much - new models inspiring design review is a good thing. Before Torrie from Unleashed Tuning took a crack at my LT1 I could tell it couldn't breathe. A tune cleaned that up such that it was obvious in the seat of the pants. For $200 I think I'll help myself to the new intake manifold. I really should go get a dyno run now that I've found a facility that's quite reasonable and near (Stafford).

It’s a no brainer with moving over to the LT2 IM. You will make more power from 0 to 6,500rpms for $200. It will be the first mod I do this spring along with a tune. The swap itself is very straight forward from the “how to” guides I’ve looked over. What’s the name of the shop in Stafford? My parents live in Missouri City and I’ll be giving them a visit in a couple weeks. I need to get a baseline dyno.

For anyone interested, here’s a dyno of a stock Camaro LT1 vs Gen 5 Camaro LS3 1LE (header, intake and tune). The LT1 made 419whp and 413lb/ft wtq on a Dynojet.

 

[Adamone92]

• Styling
• Visibility
• Pricing
• Sound
• Most importantly: the redesigned Camaro wasn't even available when I was ready to buy, but from what little we knew at the time, it didn't seem like anything earth-shattering compared to the Mustang.

Speed isn't everything, and the Camaro and Mustang are close enough that if you enjoy other things about the Mustang, you're better off saving a few bucks and focusing on becoming a better, smoother, faster driver... assuming you even go to the track. And if you don't, why do you care about lap times even a little bit?

everywhere ive looked, the camaro is cheaper.