Why DIDN'T you get a camaro?

RYGO

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Again, I said I'm a car enthusiast. I like both Mustangs and Camaros (and Corvettes, Challenger Hellcats, 911s, Nissan GT-R, Supras, M4s, Ferraris, Lambos, McLarens, etc.). Not sure how that is so hard to understand. I also don't want to invest many thousands of dollars into a PP1 Mustang to try to get it as close as possible to a ZL1. It won't have the factory engineered refinement or driving characteristics of a mass produced high performance car like the ZL1. And all those upgrades would void any warranty on the drivetrain, chassis, and suspension. And even then, I bet the only thing my car would beat a ZL1 at is in a straight line. But you can always add bolt ons to a ZL1...

And on top of all that - my Mustang with many thousands of dollars of upgrades wouldn't be worth any more than it is now.

Money was the kicker, so to speak, for not upgrading to a GT500 - even at msrp but much less paying markup.
Why didnā€™t you get the ZL1 in 18 then?
 

Idaho2018GTPremium

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Why didnā€™t you get the ZL1 in 18 then?
Probably because I didn't test drive one. But really, I didn't drive one because it was out of my comfort zone price range at the time. I have done well since then in my career and can easily afford one now. Besides, my Mustang was a huge upgrade from my 2007 Mazdaspeed3 that I had for 11 years at the time. I don't think I could have appreciated the ZL1 as much if I jumped from my Speed3 all the way up to the ZL1 at that time.

Your 18gt should be out of warranty in 2021 anyway.
I got it in November 2018, so the factory drivetrain warranty has almost 3 years left (5 years from date of purchase), and almost a year left on the bumper to bumper. However, I have an extended 6 year warranty for everything, which means almost 4 years left on that at this point. There's a few things from Steeda I could bolt on to improve the suspension without affecting warranty, I suppose. I'm just not interested in going that route because it would take way more than that to get it remotely close.
 

compprep

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I didn't want a Camaro. I wanted a Mustang to go with my 86 SVO I've owned for 30+yrs now. Simple as that.
 

Sivi70980

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Probably because I didn't test drive one. But really, I didn't drive one because it was out of my comfort zone price range at the time. I have done well since then in my career and can easily afford one now. Besides, my Mustang was a huge upgrade from my 2007 Mazdaspeed3 that I had for 11 years at the time. I don't think I could have appreciated the ZL1 as much if I jumped from my Speed3 all the way up to the ZL1 at that time.



I got it in November 2018, so the factory drivetrain warranty has almost 3 years left (5 years from date of purchase), and almost a year left on the bumper to bumper. However, I have an extended 6 year warranty for everything, which means almost 4 years left on that at this point. There's a few things from Steeda I could bolt on to improve the suspension without affecting warranty, I suppose. I'm just not interested in going that route because it would take way more than that to get it remotely close.
I hope you enjoy the hell out of your ZL1. Hope to see pics!
 

Pronichkin

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I'm good, thank you though. Turns out I'm not really close to the steering wheel šŸ˜
My wife is about 5'3" and she was driving when this happened. She was fine, and the worst that happened were small bruises on her legs.
 

RYGO

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Again, I said I'm a car enthusiast. I like both Mustangs and Camaros (and Corvettes, Challenger Hellcats, 911s, Nissan GT-R, Supras, M4s, Ferraris, Lambos, McLarens, etc.). Not sure how that is so hard to understand. I also don't want to invest many thousands of dollars into a PP1 Mustang to try to get it as close as possible to a ZL1. It won't have the factory engineered refinement or driving characteristics of a mass produced high performance car like the ZL1. And all those upgrades would void any warranty on the drivetrain, chassis, and suspension. And even then, I bet the only thing my car would beat a ZL1 at is in a straight line. But you can always add bolt ons to a ZL1...

And on top of all that - my Mustang with many thousands of dollars of upgrades wouldn't be worth any more than it is now.

Money was the kicker, so to speak, for not upgrading to a GT500 - even at msrp but much less paying markup.
I get it. Just trying to understand better. This is a mustang forum. Perhaps you donā€™t know the potential of your 18 GT is all Iā€™m getting at. ZL1 is basically a supercharged SS with an upgraded suspension. Anyone with an 18 GT (or camaro SS) can throw in a supercharger kit, upgraded suspension and for about 15K have a 50k car thatā€™s as fast and handles as nice as an ZL1 or Shelby. Your original argument was the price costs of a Shelby vs ZL1. Both cars are for enthusiasts who want the fastest car from the factory. Both cars can be beaten by their little brothers. If you didnā€™t like the camaro in 18 and you liked the mustang more you probably will have regrets realizing you overpaid for an SS with bolt ons.
 

\dave

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I've contemplated selling my mustang and truck and getting a C8. Unfortunately my wife believes that people with corvettes are looking for girlfriends and she's not open to that idea either....
Josh,
Try my approach. My wife put a deposit down and ordered a 2021 C8 vert which I'm largely funding. So, I had the input on options, she on colors, and I get to drive it too. I have the option of keeping my Mustang. Also keeping the F150. None of our paint colors match.

Brian,
I like the styling of the Camaro too, but the Mustang more. I don't care that Mustangs are so common. I view the Camaro body styling as somewhat old school, like Dodge. I really like the Dodge styling more than Camaro, but wouldn't buy Dodge due to quality and safety. I was a GM guy until GM took the taxpayer's (my!!!!) bailout money in 2009 and used the $ to undersell their competitors. I've bought 3 Fords since the GM bailout ('09 F150, '19 Mustang, & '20 Lincoln) because Ford stood tall and didn't take any bailout $. Guess I'm now over the 2009 GM money grab based on my desire for a C8, or maybe I have lost my moral compass. My brother's in the aftermarket parts business (as well as an OEM supplier), and over the years (he's 70) he has developed negative opinions about Ford OEM parts. I've never had significant issues with either. Mustang GT coupe fatality rates are pretty high. Mustang verts are better. Vettes still better. Don't know about Camaros. Something to check on the IIHS website.

Dave
 

IamCDNJosh

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Josh,
Try my approach. My wife put a deposit down and ordered a 2021 C8 vert which I'm largely funding. So, I had the input on options, she on colors, and I get to drive it too. I have the option of keeping my Mustang. Also keeping the F150. None of our paint colors match.
Dave,

She's a Porsche girl (no complaint on this). She's agreed to a 911 turbo with a PDK down the road. I want something high horsepower with supercar level performance (sorry, bolting a blower on my GT isn't what I'm looking for).

I may keep the GT as it's likely the last manual transmission car I'll own (unless I come across an E36/E46 M3 I can't refuse).
 

Idaho2018GTPremium

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I get it. Just trying to understand better. This is a mustang forum. Perhaps you donā€™t know the potential of your 18 GT is all Iā€™m getting at. ZL1 is basically a supercharged SS with an upgraded suspension. Anyone with an 18 GT (or camaro SS) can throw in a supercharger kit, upgraded suspension and for about 15K have a 50k car thatā€™s as fast and handles as nice as an ZL1 or Shelby. Your original argument was the price costs of a Shelby vs ZL1. Both cars are for enthusiasts who want the fastest car from the factory. Both cars can be beaten by their little brothers. If you didnā€™t like the camaro in 18 and you liked the mustang more you probably will have regrets realizing you overpaid for an SS with bolt ons.
I think you bring up some good points as the aftermarket approach can always make a car faster, but I disagree with the premise. A factory engineered and developed high performance car is going to be more reliable, refined, and cohesive than a car with aftermarket parts thrown at it.

I know the GT has a lot of power potential, but it would take a lot of effort to get the GT PP1 chassis and suspension to ZL1 levels of precision and overall capabilities (again, not just in a straight line as I drive a lot of twisty roads). And how do you address the steering feel differences - the difference in steering and feedback is palpable. I do not want to fork out, say, $12-15k in supercharger, drivetrain, and chassis/suspension, and cooling upgrades, which again, all those upgrades would add no value to my car from a resale perspective. And again, no warranty, and a less valuable car since it's still only a GT. No thanks.

And, I'd still be 1 of 20 Mustang GTs at my local Cars and Coffee vs. 1 of 1 (or maybe 2) for 6th Gen ZL1. They are much less common around here than Mustangs, which sort of appeals to me personally.

People throw aftermarket parts at GTs all the time that don't actually make them more capable on twisty roads or a road course. Check out this Car and Driver test of a Roush supercharged GT: Tested: BFP 2019 Ford Mustang GT Delivers Budget Performance (caranddriver.com)

I suppose the ZL1 is sort of like a Camaro 2SS 1LE but with numerous upgrades:
1) LT4 engine (LT4 is not just an LT1 with a supercharger)
2) Stronger A10 transmission (10L90 in the ZL1 vs 10L80 in the SS)
3) Chassis and suspension are tuned for the extra 130 lbs of weight compared to an A10 SS 1LE,
4) ZL1 specific larger Brembo brakes
5) Revised front end: wider fenders, revised fascia and hood w/ Carbon fiber insert (exposed CF in my case)
6) Rear wing, functional side rockers, and an upgraded rear valance.
7) Alcantara lined interior (some may not consider this an upgrade over a 2SS trim level but it feels sportier because--supercars!)

I'm sure I'm missing other things that simply aren't discussed or advertised as well.

I priced a 2SS 1LE spec'd very similar to the ZL1 I ordered and the price difference came out to $16k. I suppose one could get a supercharger and some rocker panels for less (say, $10k), but again, you have the investment with no return, no LT4, no upgraded brakes, no ZL1 front end and body upgrades, and nothing to show for it in the resale department.

All of those same arguments apply in GT PP1 vs GT500, except even more so because the GT500 chassis and suspension is much better than a PP1 GT.

Anyway, now hopefully you understand my perspective.
 

IamCDNJosh

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I get it. Just trying to understand better. This is a mustang forum. Perhaps you donā€™t know the potential of your 18 GT is all Iā€™m getting at. ZL1 is basically a supercharged SS with an upgraded suspension. Anyone with an 18 GT (or camaro SS) can throw in a supercharger kit, upgraded suspension and for about 15K have a 50k car thatā€™s as fast and handles as nice as an ZL1 or Shelby. Your original argument was the price costs of a Shelby vs ZL1. Both cars are for enthusiasts who want the fastest car from the factory. Both cars can be beaten by their little brothers. If you didnā€™t like the camaro in 18 and you liked the mustang more you probably will have regrets realizing you overpaid for an SS with bolt ons.
The coyote was not designed for FI like the predator engine. Compression ratio is too high and a GT doesn't have the cooling capacity nor the braking system to handle that kind of power in a sustained fashion (try a 20 minute lapping session with a blower on your GT and you're likely to get power limited).

You're dismissing the engineering that goes into something like the GT500 or the ZL1. You aren't going to be able to build the equivalent using the aftermarket.

Just because you put a whipple on your GT doesn't mean you're in the same league as a GT500.
 
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Im torn between the 2020 Mustang GT and the 2020 Camaro SS both in A10 variants. And both seem to be very close in many aspects. I plan on asking this question on a camaro forum, but the other way around. But Im curious about those that shopped both seriously and chose the Mustang in the end. Lets not use the "visibility" argument though. I've driven both extensively and that isnt a problem in the camaro, at least not for me. What else prevented you from getting the camaro? Was it price, availability or was it options?? Lets have a real conversation without a flame war starting. Thanks.
IMO Ford's are better cars. Don't like the interior of the Camaro, the dashboard, instruments and the air vents. The back end is ugly (IMO). the Mustang 5.0 sounds and revs better. But if the biggest flaw, in my opinion, means little to you, well then you may be a Camaro buyer. And to each his own, there have been (IMO) some great GM cars, 64-69 GTO, 67-69 Camaro, 70 Camaro, LS6 Chevelle, 396 Nova, Buick GS455, SD 455 Firebird. So I like many different cars, but the Mustang has the right stuff now. Also like the Challengers, new and classic, but the insurance on the 392 cars is incredibly higher than the Mustang.
 

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If you didnā€™t like the camaro in 18 and you liked the mustang more you probably will have regrets realizing you overpaid for an SS with bolt ons.
The ZL1 is a 2SS/1LE + blower

An upgraded GT/PP1 (slew of Steeda/BMR fixes applied) still can't match my SS/1LE but it's a lot closer for sure. I paid about the same amount of money for both at this point.

I bought the Mustang first and 5 months later added the SS/1LE. Then decided to throw money at the Mustang and keep both.
 

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The ZL1 is a 2SS/1LE + blower

An upgraded GT/PP1 (slew of Steeda/BMR fixes applied) still can't match my SS/1LE but it's a lot closer for sure. I paid about the same amount of money for both at this point.

I bought the Mustang first and 5 months later added the SS/1LE. Then decided to throw money at the Mustang and keep both.
They are very similar, but the ZL1 has other upgrades over the SS 1LE besides the LT4: https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/why-didnt-you-get-a-camaro.152389/post-3112825
 
 
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