Who will swap for the new 7.3 V8!

[Fatguy]

I have to agree with Hack that I am concerned Ford is really stretching it component and design limits because they are holding strong at only being 5.0 size. As a mechanical engineer and machine designer, I have learned over the years to keep it as simple as possible to get the job done. Even though sometimes its easier to design a complex complicated Rube Goldberg design. It was really just recently when I started looking into the coyote design and at first marveling in what power was made from such a small size. But then I looked into it and realized that by sticking to the small displacement but looking to squeeze out every last drop of power with out FI they go with the OHC design. But then notice that a simple 6.2 motor weighs less, smaller size and much less complexity. So to me the simpler design becomes appealing. I'm still not so sure some of all the noises coming from the Coyotes are from all the cams and chains and VVT. But maybe the coyote is more fuel efficient and emissions and that was a design driver.

I'll admit I can only imagine all the design criteria that is discussed. Emissions, existing tooling, magazine max HP numbers, forum emotions. It should be a simple logical solution. Put a V6 twin turbo in the mustang and blow everything away. But that's not what customers want. Look at the backlash over the Rapter and even the GT supercar. Sure not an easy answer but I do feel simpler would be better and the current coyote 5.0 is really pushing its limits because the displacement is being held at 5.0.

One reason I like the 7.3.


BTW: I was one of the few to see the prototype Ford GT sans skins (except for the doors) on its first 5km/hr show for employees in the back parking lot lane. Those large intercoolers along with the plumbing! You probably won’t see that engine in the Mustang while these are still being built and sold (but what do I know).


I shot this with my Blackberry Passport (I think, or a Note 3 or iPhone incase anyone checks whatever data may still be on the photo - now I can relax) back in the day with skins but no paint or exterior hardware.

A big old dumb motor is better. Then like any design stuff will get tacked on. As people switch to electric the V8 use will get smaller but more specialized. So a 7.3 maybe as good as any base to start off with. The Coyote is at an age where you start to see the first grey hairs...


I’ve got more photos but finding them will be a bitch!

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[martinjlm]

By the way, lest anyone think I consider engineermike some mortal enemy - nope!

Actually, I'm enjoying the back-and-forth you guys have going and would probably jump at the chance to have a coffee or beer with either or both of you. Engineermike clearly knows his $#!t and you clearly know what you want. Makes for an interesting conversation. Rationality vs emotion. The yin and yang of purchase decisions.

 

[NoVaGT]

When you time shift by making comparisons over time - you can’t take a 2019 Coyote motor back to 1969. For what we had back then there was nothing better.


My fox body 5.0s were some of the fastest on the street. When I say that now people say they were clap trap engines that only made 225 horsepower. But they were one of the fastest cars on the street. Do I want my 18 year old Mustang back now? Hell no...


But if they made modern day versions then I’m interested. But the new ones will be faster and produce more power than the old ones. Because they are new with all the technological improvements. That’s why I want the new 7.3.


The past is left in the past...

In that case, what Ford needs to do is dramatically reduce the weight and size of the Mustang.

If the car was 3300 lbs instead of 4000 lbs, with the current motor, it would be amazing.

 

[Erik427]

As previously stated, the mod motor went up to 5.8 liters in v8 form. However, apparently Ford didn't see the need to use the 5.8 liter version very many places. If you can achieve your power and torque goals using 5.0 - 5.2 liters, why bother?

Based off of the 5.4 that is very huge and heavy.......not a very good example.
Anything that add cid to the Mustang would be a welcomed change.

 

[Erik427]

At the time, it was believed that controlling emissions became much more difficult with larger bores. I don’t remember the sweet spot, but it was somewhere around 3.7 inches. This also played a part in the design of the mod motors. Of course, technology advances and that limit was overcome.

Disclaimer: This is from memory, so take it with a grain of salt.

I remember this......your memory still works.
It's time for Ford to change with the advancements.......

 

[Erik427]

By the way, lest anyone think I consider engineermike some mortal enemy - nope!


A couple of things. If you go back to last Friday you will see I didn’t necessarily ascribe to rationality and logic exclusively. In fact with AI I see errors as a necessary part of it (also why I think quantum computing and Qubits is where it’s at) and not a problem, but I digress. Contradictions? Who cares as I am going to contradict myself again and speak of the elephant in the room.


The easiest thing for me to have done was to simply buy a GT and have a V8 as I always have. The path of least resistance. And I tried it in the last days of the 2017 model year and lucked out on a black GT. Members here on this very board (who bought the car) told me not to buy the 2018 GT due to problems with the engine and it so happens they were right. Even if the percentage is low I just do not trust the new motor anymore. Certainly the longevity of this block is in question and these blocks can not be remachined or rebored and it is not all about bore spacing but also other problems with that block. I’d mention them off the top of my head from this technical journal I read but I don’t want those statements picked apart. The long and short of it is that the 3rd generation Coyote motor has a disposable block and they designed it that way. Not for me!


So along comes the 7.3 which just about answers every deficit I found with the Coyote. Sure it’s not perfect but not deal breakers - at this time. So is it any wonder why I find the swap compelling?

This right here.

 

[Bluemustang]

As previously stated, the mod motor went up to 5.8 liters in v8 form. However, apparently Ford didn't see the need to use the 5.8 liter version very many places. If you can achieve your power and torque goals using 5.0 - 5.2 liters, why bother?

Yep. And the fact that the Coyote can do about the same with 5.0L as the Camaro engine can do with 6.2L. Why is that not good?

It's like people are arguing for more displacement for the sake of more displacement.

Motors are going smaller not bigger. 7.3L V8 for a sports/muscle car is archaic thought process IMO.

 

[Erik427]

All mandated by the rule book. DOHC and 4v will make more power, all else being equal.

Nissan runs DOHC........

 

[Erik427]

Yep. And the fact that the Coyote can do about the same with 5.0L as the Camaro engine can do with 6.2L. Why is that not good?

It's like people are arguing for more displacement for the sake of more displacement.

Motors are going smaller not bigger. 7.3L V8 for a sports/muscle car is archaic thought process IMO.

It's not archaic when cost and complexity comes into play.
The 4th gen Coyote will be extremely complex and costly.
Both are strong signs of a aging platform.

 

[Fatguy]

Actually, I'm enjoying the back-and-forth you guys have going and would probably jump at the chance to have a coffee or beer with either or both of you. Engineermike clearly knows his $#!t and you clearly know what you want. Makes for an interesting conversation. Rationality vs emotion. The yin and yang of purchase decisions.

Oh GM Guy,


Meeting me will involve you is stuff you really probably didn’t want to get into. I did make a couple a very big splashes at a well know place a month ago. I think I made an impression. Nothing to do with cars though.



I’ll leave it at that





(But your interest instincts are spot on - I’ll give you that much...)

 

[Bluemustang]

It's not archaic when cost and complexity comes into play.
The 4th gen Coyote will be extremely complex and costly.
Both are strong signs of a aging platform.

Yes, but also have to remember as technology advances costs generally become less. And yes eventually Ford will replace the Coyote engine platform, but it's very unlikely it will be for a bigger motor. If anything they will adopt a smaller motor and infuse electric power into the mix. Different tool for a different job. Leave the big motors for the trucks.

 

[Erik427]

I'll refer back to my last post...

Can you find an OHC engine that isn't OHV?

You knew what I meant.......

 

[Erik427]

Yes, but also have to remember as technology advances costs generally become less. And yes eventually Ford will replace the Coyote engine platform, but it's very unlikely it will be for a bigger motor. If anything they will adopt a smaller motor and infuse electric power into the mix. Different tool for a different job. Leave the big motors for the trucks.

........and kill the Romance by turning the Stang into a untouchable appliance.

 

[engineermike]

.... And I tried it in the last days of the 2017 model year and lucked out on a black GT. ..

What is this referring to? The time you test drove a gen 2 but didn't actually floor it, only to conclude the gen 3 doesn't have proper low-end torque?

 

[engineermike]

A big old dumb motor is better. ....The Coyote is at an age where you start to see the first grey hairs...

Contradicting yourself again, I see.

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