Who will swap for the new 7.3 V8!

[bootlegger]

I know first hand someone with a turbo LS that has had no issues with theirs. They work with old N/A engines. They work with new N/A engines. It doesn't matter what engine you are using. These systems all work the same way....old and new.
If his boat isn't running properly, it's his fault. Check the wires. Check the vacuum lines. Check and recheck the grounds. Grounds are the number one cause of issues in a car. I can only imagine in a boat.

He has checked every part of the system. He has been talking to a local boat racing shop, and they told him the systems aren't perfectly plug and play. They need some adjustments to really pull right, especially on custom twin turbo jet applications. Grounding isn't that hard on a boat. Your battery is right next to the engine.

As for maximizing power, that can be done for much cheaper at your local dragstrip. You only adjust one variable...timing, and the computer maximizes your fuel ratio. A few runs down the dragstrip is a hell of a lot cheaper than dyno time. I've done both, so I know first hand. Your friend with your boat isn't so lucky, but he has some unusual circumstances not relevant to this conversation.

Since when do you need dyno tuning with a Lund or PBD tune? You take it to the track, datalog, and the tune is adjusted based on the logs. If you add a part, drive it some, make some pulls, datalog, then the tune is adjusted. I would be doing the same thing if I tuned myself or used a standalone, because I have worked in engine development and don't trust an ECU to do everything for me (factory or aftermarket).

The reason you would never buy a stand alone is because you don't do any real hot rodding.

What is "hot rodding"? No, I don't drag race, if that's what you mean. Never heard someone call that "hot rodding". I prefer to turn the wheel, personally. When I lived in IL, I would run AutoX during the summers. Now I just try to look for track events that aren't expensive. If real hot rodding means just bolting up a special engine to be original, then I guess you can count me out.

It's easier for you to have someone email you a tune based on your combination. You paid someone else to do the work for you. There is nothing wrong with that. That's what the coyote allows for.

You literally said the standalone systems are plug and play, and require no tuning. What is easier (or lazier) than hooking up a system and letting it do all the work. And no, I didn't pay someone to do the work for me. I datalog regularly and review every log. I don't just trust the adjustments made by PBD. I don't have the software to adjust my tunes, nor do I have the experience on the Coyote dual fuel system. The standalone system is either plug and play, or it isn't. Sounds like you want the ECU to do all the work for you. Personally, I enjoy collecting and reviewing data from my system.

It's also a $2k+ add on for a swap and will require you to spend your money on a tune not just for the install, but anytime you make any change. You wan't to try a different intake? Call up your tuner. You wan't to try different headers? Call your tuner. You wan't to try E85? Call your tuner.
I've got new for you. Most people that do engine swaps don't have the time or money to call a tuner every time they wan't to make a modification.

If you are pulling an engine out of a junk yard, why wouldn't you take the ECU as well. There is no reason it would cost $2000+. It will likely be included in the cost of the complete engine. The rest of the nonsense you are spouting sounds like you have no experience wiring with PBD or Lund. Have you even modified your S550? For $600, I bought my SCT unit and 2 base PBD tunes for stock intake and 2 for a JLT intake. 2 were for 93oct and the other 2 were for E85. This included 3 months of support, so I was able to datalog with each map and have the map fine tuned for best performance.
If I want to add intakes or headers, I just pay $50 for another 3 months of support. It will include base 93oct and E85 maps for the add-on parts, which will run just fine no matter which set of headers you want to try. After all, the ECU on the Coyote learns as well. If you change headers, you can datalog and have the map adjusted for best performance.

This is all a bit silly. Any person with the skill to perform custom engine swaps will likely know enough about tuning to play around with the maps in a standalone. If you don't have that skill, you are going to leave a lot on the table relying on the self-learning ECUs.

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[EcoVert]

Number 1 somebody has brought back the 7.3 engine swap thread

 

[tokuzumi]

No one has to spend excessive amounts of money right away to build up a 7.3 liter V8. As aftermarket parts become available , the engine can be upgraded. I can see the 7.3 liter engine as a good bracket race engine for the drag strips. The fun will be selecting cams , heads , and intakes as they become available from the aftermarket to find the true potential of the engine. No reason for trying to be practical about selecting the best engine, more fun to find the potential of the engine.

We'll see a bunch of F250-650s drag racing?

 

[millhouse]

He has checked every part of the system. He has been talking to a local boat racing shop, and they told him the systems aren't perfectly plug and play. They need some adjustments to really pull right, especially on custom twin turbo jet applications. Grounding isn't that hard on a boat. Your battery is right next to the engine.

He shouldn't be grounding the computer to a battery. ECU grounds need to be separate from all other electronics to avoid any type of interference. This is the same on a car as it is a boat. You need to avoid ground offsets at all costs. I've seen shops screw up on this. Have your buddy brush up on the subject here...

https://adaptronicecu.com/blogs/modular-instructional-videos/ecu-grounding-tips

Since when do you need dyno tuning with a Lund or PBD tune? You take it to the track, datalog, and the tune is adjusted based on the logs. If you add a part, drive it some, make some pulls, datalog, then the tune is adjusted. I would be doing the same thing if I tuned myself or used a standalone, because I have worked in engine development and don't trust an ECU to do everything for me (factory or aftermarket).

What? At first you said dyno tuning is needed to maximize power. And now you are saying dyno tuning isn't needed. Which one is it?

Those tunes that Lund is giving you is exactly the same thing a stand alone computer does by itself. It just adjusts the fuel trims based off of wideband outputs. You don't trust it? That's ok. They have been proven to be reliable and extremely accurate. Even the stock coyote computer makes short and long term adjustments during closed loop operation.

What is "hot rodding"? No, I don't drag race, if that's what you mean. Never heard someone call that "hot rodding". I prefer to turn the wheel, personally. When I lived in IL, I would run AutoX during the summers. Now I just try to look for track events that aren't expensive. If real hot rodding means just bolting up a special engine to be original, then I guess you can count me out.

You're missing out. Go buy a old cheap Ford falcon and throw in an engine...any engine. Get your hands dirty. Seriously, it's fun.

This is why you don't understand what I'm talking about. You are speaking from a platform where you would never dare pull a stock engine out of a vehicle for any reason other than to fix it.

You literally said the standalone systems are plug and play, and require no tuning. What is easier (or lazier) than hooking up a system and letting it do all the work. And no, I didn't pay someone to do the work for me. I datalog regularly and review every log. I don't just trust the adjustments made by PBD. I don't have the software to adjust my tunes, nor do I have the experience on the Coyote dual fuel system. The standalone system is either plug and play, or it isn't. Sounds like you want the ECU to do all the work for you. Personally, I enjoy collecting and reviewing data from my system.

They are not all plug and play. Some are, some require you to put your own pigtails on. Totally depends on the system and application. This is completely different than tuning.

In regards to tuning, these systems adjust fuel for you. They adjust them to the exact same ratios that you would do by datalogging and sending them in to a tuner. They do them almost immediately though. While you're running around at WOT...doing possible damage to your engine, these stand alone system will have already adjusted the fuel trims. You can alter target fuel ratios if you like, but these ratios are pretty damn standard for power production and safety. The only items to really tweak is your spark table...and even these are fairly standard. Total timing at WOT will get you more or less power....and the fuel will auto adjust when you alter these values.

Why someone would want to manually alter complete fuel tables is beyond me. I've done it. It sucks. It requires multiple datalogs. It requires time. That's why everyone (yourself included) pays someone else to do it.

You say you enjoy reviewing the data from your system? Stand alones allow for that as well. You're saying it's lazy to hook up a system and do all the work? You are paying someone else to do the tune for you.

If you are pulling an engine out of a junk yard, why wouldn't you take the ECU as well. There is no reason it would cost $2000+. It will likely be included in the cost of the complete engine.

ECU's are typically not included with a salvage engine. They'll come with the injector harness...and if you're lucky all of those wiring won't be cut when they yanked the engine out of the car.

Those $2000+ ECU's come with a complete harness. You can try to pull the harness out of a donor vehicle....I've tried that. It sucks. You're better off buying a standard wiring kit from jegs or summit and altering it to fit your application. That's why those ECU kit's are so expensive, as they are complete.

The rest of the nonsense you are spouting sounds like you have no experience wiring with PBD or Lund. Have you even modified your S550? For $600, I bought my SCT unit and 2 base PBD tunes for stock intake and 2 for a JLT intake. 2 were for 93oct and the other 2 were for E85. This included 3 months of support, so I was able to datalog with each map and have the map fine tuned for best performance.
If I want to add intakes or headers, I just pay $50 for another 3 months of support. It will include base 93oct and E85 maps for the add-on parts, which will run just fine no matter which set of headers you want to try. After all, the ECU on the Coyote learns as well. If you change headers, you can datalog and have the map adjusted for best performance.

Yes, you just proved my point. You are paying for support. You have to datalog, send in your tune and wait for your tuner to send it back. You are at the mercy of Lund. It's the easy way to do things, I know. It sucks when you are tuning your car during the holidays or on a Sunday and you have to wait until someone gets in the office to tune your car for you. Again, it's obvious you have no desire to get dirty. That's OK. It's not for everyone.

This is all a bit silly. Any person with the skill to perform custom engine swaps will likely know enough about tuning to play around with the maps in a standalone. If you don't have that skill, you are going to leave a lot on the table relying on the self-learning ECUs.

Ummm...no. There are plenty of folks that I would trust with my life to swap an engine and fabricate motor mounts and suspension. Some of those people have no clue what a wideband sensor is and tune their cars based on the color of the spark plug and it's grounding strap. One skillset is mechanical, the other is programming. Not the same.

With that said, stand alones don't require you to play with the fueling maps. These are pretty damn standard across multiple engine platforms. Yes, you can mess with them if you desire. If you have a wicked cam with extremely low or erratic vacuum signals, you're going to have to normalize the vacuum and tweak that area of the map to smooth things out (likely need to run richer). Most of these computers though have cam settings that will enrich idle areas to allow for low vacuum. This is not something you can do with a mail order tune though, so either you have to figure it out yourself, ask some folks on some forums that have already done it or take it to a shop.

 

[TexasRebel]

Grounding on an aluminum boat: easy
Grounding on a fiberglass boat: not as easy.

 

[bootlegger]

He shouldn't be grounding the computer to a battery. ECU grounds need to be separate from all other electronics to avoid any type of interference. This is the same on a car as it is a boat. You need to avoid ground offsets at all costs. I've seen shops screw up on this. Have your buddy brush up on the subject here...

https://adaptronicecu.com/blogs/modular-instructional-videos/ecu-grounding-tips

Literally no decent boat builder would ground the ECU straight to a battery. There are separate distribution blocks for the various systems. They are minimal in a 21ft jet, but still there. I am pretty sure my friend, who has been building boats for 30+ years, knows how to wire just fine.

What? At first you said dyno tuning is needed to maximize power. And now you are saying dyno tuning isn't needed. Which one is it?

I never said dyno tuning is required, but it is needed if you want the most power. Dyno tuning isn't required for a good running engine with any tune from Lund or PBD. If you want maximum power with either tuning system, whether it be an ECU programmer or standalone, you need to hit the dyno and adjust the timing/fuel curves.

Those tunes that Lund is giving you is exactly the same thing a stand alone computer does by itself. It just adjusts the fuel trims based off of wideband outputs. You don't trust it? That's ok. They have been proven to be reliable and extremely accurate. Even the stock coyote computer makes short and long term adjustments during closed loop operation.

No, I don't trust the ECUs to maximize performance. I have been the guy creating the fuel mapping for the ECUs. The ECU only adjusts according to the parameters that are programmed in it. For liability reasons, they always run conservative. They are also thrown off when sensor readings aren't exactly the same in different applications.

You're missing out. Go buy a old cheap Ford falcon and throw in an engine...any engine. Get your hands dirty. Seriously, it's fun.

No thanks. I rather have something more modern that can take a turn. I spent years working on projects transplanting modern engines and drivetrains in older cars. I gave it up once I started working on fuel systems and engines professionally. Now I just want a car that can take a turn >1g while still having enough power to make a track day exciting.

This is why you don't understand what I'm talking about. You are speaking from a platform where you would never dare pull a stock engine out of a vehicle for any reason other than to fix it.

Been there, done that. The S550 already has one of the greatest engines on the market. The capabilities are endless, with a little cooling work. If I ever did want to start playing with older platforms and engine swaps again, I would likely grab an old Subaru WRX chassis and swap in a built EJ20 to go play in the dirt. I will own another boat before that becomes a reality.

They are not all plug and play. Some are, some require you to put your own pigtails on. Totally depends on the system and application. This is completely different than tuning.

In regards to tuning, these systems adjust fuel for you. They adjust them to the exact same ratios that you would do by datalogging and sending them in to a tuner. They do them almost immediately though. While you're running around at WOT...doing possible damage to your engine, these stand alone system will have already adjusted the fuel trims. You can alter target fuel ratios if you like, but these ratios are pretty damn standard for power production and safety. The only items to really tweak is your spark table...and even these are fairly standard. Total timing at WOT will get you more or less power....and the fuel will auto adjust when you alter these values.

Wiring in some pigtails is basically plug and play. It takes about as much skill as installing car audio. The base maps from Lund or PBD are never close to doing damage to the engine. I know, I have logged them. In the rare case there is knock, the engine has 4 knock sensors to detect it and adjust accordingly.

Why someone would want to manually alter complete fuel tables is beyond me. I've done it. It sucks. It requires multiple datalogs. It requires time. That's why everyone (yourself included) pays someone else to do it.

You say you enjoy reviewing the data from your system? Stand alones allow for that as well. You're saying it's lazy to hook up a system and do all the work? You are paying someone else to do the tune for you.

It is lazy to let the system do all the work. If you aren't even datalogging and reviewing the logs on a standalone, it is really lazy. Personally, I enjoy that part of the process. As stated before, I personally pay for their experience. I was doing my own tuning when i owned Subarus. All opensource and easy to access. It was fun, IMO. However, for a $40k car where I want to maximize power, I am going to pay the $50 for an expert to give input. Besides, the fuel system on a Gen 3 Coyote isn't something I am familiar with. They have thousands of hours of dyno time working on these cars.

ECU's are typically not included with a salvage engine. They'll come with the injector harness...and if you're lucky all of those wiring won't be cut when they yanked the engine out of the car.

Those $2000+ ECU's come with a complete harness. You can try to pull the harness out of a donor vehicle....I've tried that. It sucks. You're better off buying a standard wiring kit from jegs or summit and altering it to fit your application. That's why those ECU kit's are so expensive, as they are complete.

Last engine I pulled out of a U-Pull-It was a Subaru 2.2L (EJ22) that was going in a friend's 88 GL wagon. We pulled the engine, trans, ECU, and harness. Price was just full engine and trans. If the engines are as common in the junk yards as you claim they will be, finding a complete system should be easy. Sure, it is a no brainer to get a cheap standalone if you just get a long block and some accessories. But in interest of cheapest project, one would probably try to find a the complete engine/ECU/harness.

Yes, you just proved my point. You are paying for support. You have to datalog, send in your tune and wait for your tuner to send it back. You are at the mercy of Lund. It's the easy way to do things, I know. It sucks when you are tuning your car during the holidays or on a Sunday and you have to wait until someone gets in the office to tune your car for you. Again, it's obvious you have no desire to get dirty. That's OK. It's not for everyone.

I still fail to see how letting the standalone do all the work for you is getting your hands dirty. You are just plugging in some wires, installing some sensors, turning on the system, and going. I helped my buddy with some of his. With the LSX, it took less work than installing his audio system.

 

[bootlegger]

Grounding on an aluminum boat: easy
Grounding on a fiberglass boat: not as easy.

Depending on the boat, it isn't difficult. This is a 21ft Sutphen. Most of the important systems are within 2 ft of the battery. There are hundreds of companies making battery management systems and distribution blocks. Cost is really the only limitation.

 

[millhouse]

Literally no decent boat builder would ground the ECU straight to a battery. There are separate distribution blocks for the various systems. They are minimal in a 21ft jet, but still there. I am pretty sure my friend, who has been building boats for 30+ years, knows how to wire just fine.

You say that, but mention about grounding that the battery is right there. Again, ECU's are extremely sensitive to grounding offsets. They are the number one issue with aftermarket ECU's.

I never said dyno tuning is required, but it is needed if you want the most power. Dyno tuning isn't required for a good running engine with any tune from Lund or PBD. If you want maximum power with either tuning system, whether it be an ECU programmer or standalone, you need to hit the dyno and adjust the timing/fuel curves.

No problem with this.

No, I don't trust the ECUs to maximize performance. I have been the guy creating the fuel mapping for the ECUs. The ECU only adjusts according to the parameters that are programmed in it. For liability reasons, they always run conservative. They are also thrown off when sensor readings aren't exactly the same in different applications.

The ECU adjusts to the same damn paramaters that Lund is adjusting for. They only run conservative for the initial fuel trims. The more your drive it, the more the long term trims are adjusted. Once you have driven it for a period of time, they don't adjust as much...that's why they are called long term trims. Short term trims take over the bulk of the work....but long term trims still adjust. How do I know this? I've used them. They had wideband sensors I could monitor. I reviewed the data-logs. Again, once you've driven them, they aren't conservative...they are exactly where you want them. It sounds like you have never installed, adjusted or ran one. I have ran several.....all worked flawlessly. All ran at exactly the desired AFR once long term trims were good to go.

Been there, done that. The S550 already has one of the greatest engines on the market. The capabilities are endless, with a little cooling work. If I ever did want to start playing with older platforms and engine swaps again, I would likely grab an old Subaru WRX chassis and swap in a built EJ20 to go play in the dirt. I will own another boat before that becomes a reality.

The capabilities aren't endless. Once you start getting close to 1500hp, you need to switch to an iron block. As great as the engine is, it has its limits. Hell, once you get past 800hp, the bores start to deform. Don't get me wrong, that's fantastic compared to the windsor splitting in half at 500. It's not however infallible.

Wiring in some pigtails is basically plug and play. It takes about as much skill as installing car audio. The base maps from Lund or PBD are never close to doing damage to the engine. I know, I have logged them. In the rare case there is knock, the engine has 4 knock sensors to detect it and adjust accordingly.

Wait, so you are complaining that you feel the stand alone computers are too conservative (which they aren't). Now you are saying that Lund and PBD are conservative as well...but it's a good thing. You're contradicting yourself.

It is lazy to let the system do all the work. If you aren't even datalogging and reviewing the logs on a standalone, it is really lazy. Personally, I enjoy that part of the process. As stated before, I personally pay for their experience. I was doing my own tuning when i owned Subarus. All opensource and easy to access. It was fun, IMO. However, for a $40k car where I want to maximize power, I am going to pay the $50 for an expert to give input. Besides, the fuel system on a Gen 3 Coyote isn't something I am familiar with. They have thousands of hours of dyno time working on these cars.

What? You are paying for someone else to tune your car. And you think that is less lazy than wiring a stand alone, setting initial setup paramaters and having a computer tune it for you? Seriously, I'd like to understand your thought here.

And again, you enjoy datalogging, but you aren't tuning the car. You do realize you can do the same thing with a stand alone ecu.

Last engine I pulled out of a U-Pull-It was a Subaru 2.2L (EJ22) that was going in a friend's 88 GL wagon. We pulled the engine, trans, ECU, and harness. Price was just full engine and trans. If the engines are as common in the junk yards as you claim they will be, finding a complete system should be easy. Sure, it is a no brainer to get a cheap standalone if you just get a long block and some accessories. But in interest of cheapest project, one would probably try to find a the complete engine/ECU/harness.

It's cheap...until you realize that you will be tied to mail order tunes for the rest of your life. Swapping in an aftermarket ECU is a much better long term solution in this scenario. The coyote however is a different beast. The amount of controls that engine has is phenomenal. The 7.3L is a simple port injected engine. There are many aftermarket ECU's that will handle that easily...and again, not tie you down to emailed tunes and office hours.

I still fail to see how letting the standalone do all the work for you is getting your hands dirty. You are just plugging in some wires, installing some sensors, turning on the system, and going. I helped my buddy with some of his. With the LSX, it took less work than installing his audio system.

Hopefully you didn't ground the audio system on the same block as the ECU! Sorry, I had to.

With that said, it's much dirtier than emailing someone a datalog and having them tune your car for you.

 

[shogun32]

If you aren't even datalogging and reviewing the logs on a standalone,

probably merits a separate thread, but is there a good list of parameters to log? I can't seem to find one, and not being a tuner by trade don't know which ones are relevant and which ones are secondary/derivative of other primary items.

 

[NotagainV2]

5 years from now itll be cheap..... Then add this and that and swap this but these expenses dont count neither does tuning.....
LMFAO

Know what will be cheap 5 years and further down the road?

A GT500 WITH a factory blower WITH a factory glorious DCT transmission that will make 1k whp with simply bolt ons ported blower and a tune.

Ohh BTW its available NOW!!

Let me know when you clowns swap a 7.3 and unfvck the electeonics.... and unfvck the transmission options....and sort out the driveability.......

This of course 5 years from now were talking right?

And youll still get stomped by the guy with a used bolt on GT500.

i mean if expense dont count or dont matter talking hypothetically here right?

LMFAO the majortity of this country is all sign and drive slap some mods on it and call it a day. Gotta be latest and greatest!!

Let me know 5 years from know what your garbage 7.3 swap cost you.....

 

[80FoxCoupe]

I would rather have a stroked 351w to 427cubic inch swap in my mustang over a 7.3 ....

5 years from now itll be cheap..... Then add this and that and swap this but these expenses dont count neither does tuning.....
LMFAO

Know what will be cheap 5 years and further down the road?

A GT500 WITH a factory blower WITH a factory glorious DCT transmission that will make 1k whp with simply bolt ons ported blower and a tune.

Ohh BTW its available NOW!!

Let me know when you clowns swap a 7.3 and unfvck the electeonics.... and unfvck the transmission options....and sort out the driveability.......

This of course 5 years from now were talking right?

And youll still get stomped by the guy with a used bolt on GT500.

i mean if expense dont count or dont matter talking hypothetically here right?

LMFAO the majortity of this country is all sign and drive slap some mods on it and call it a day. Gotta be latest and greatest!!

Let me know 5 years from know what your garbage 7.3 swap cost you.....

Get emotional much? LOL calm down.

 

[NotagainV2]

Not at all the OMGGerdzirrrrrraaaaaaa in this thread is hilarious.

 

[80FoxCoupe]

It's an engine with lots of positives and a viable swap solution for some. Does it make sense to put it in a s550, not to me. Lots of people do things that don't make sense. Just watch the news or simply look around. Car stuff isn't a big deal. Weird swap, expensive, don't make sense... Don't matter. Some folks like a challenge. Some sign and drive. Some have huge build threads of putting stupid shit and stickers all over thier shit with no performance mods. Don't matter.

 

[millhouse]

It's an engine with lots of positives and a viable swap solution for some. Does it make sense to put it in a s550, not to me. Lots of people do things that don't make sense. Just watch the news or simply look around. Car stuff isn't a big deal. Weird swap, expensive, don't make sense... Don't matter. Some folks like a challenge. Some sign and drive. Some have huge build threads of putting stupid shit and stickers all over thier shit with no performance mods. Don't matter.

Here is a question for you. Let’s say you pick up a 2015 Salvage S550 without an engine or transmission. What do you put in it? Do you throw in a coyote and turn into essentially a GT? To me, that option would be boring as hell.

 

[NotagainV2]

LOL Hypothetically of course again............

Sorry not sorry couldnt resist.

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