Whipple Final Concerns Post Install

Discussion in 'Forced Induction - 5.0L V8 Engine' started by Brilliant1, Apr 24, 2016.

  1. Brilliant1

    Brilliant1 Member

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    I have a 2016 GT PP and just finished a 30 hour journey adding a Whipple Stage 2 kit to my Mustang.

    I went out for some hot-rodding today.

    Dear god. This thing is rip your face off fast.

    Love it. GREAT JOB WHIPPLE!

    2 Issues remain.

    1- I have a bit of belt walk. I contacted Dennis at Whipple and he asked me to switch 2 of the idler pulleys. I did that and I rechecked the torque for all three. It made no difference.

    Could it be the tension? Which is more likely to cause this? Too tight or not tight enough?

    All three steel idler belts have a little bit of play. They look like high quality Canadian bearings so its hard to imagine all three of them being out of spec.

    2- There seems to be a bit of hesitation as I push the pedal far enough to start getting into boost around 2800. Once the power comes on though it feels great.

    Could this be related to my first question? In my overthinking I thought, what if somehow the belt isnt tight enough so it slips cause a delay in the SC to spool? Dont laugh...

    I am using the standard whipple tune straight from whipple. I loaded via the flare tool without issue. No codes.

    Ideas?
     
  2. db252

    db252 Equinsu Ocha

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    Installed mine about three weeks ago so it's pretty fresh in my mind so I'll offer what little insight I can. I'm guessing you have the 6 rib setup which is what I have also so if you are using the 10 rib there might be something I'm not aware of.

    Belt walk - You shouldn't have any of this as the grooved drive pulleys keep the belt aligned along with the shoulders of those pulleys. Smooth pulleys for the most part are for directional change. You shouldn't have any play in the pulleys as that would be detrimental to the bearings. It would obviously better to see his in person but all pulley adapters are in place correctly yes? You are in the proper grooves of the alternator?
    In this serpentine design, too loose or too tight shouldn't really make a belt walk. Too loose will obviously slip and usually gives the tell tale sign of squeaking. Too tight will cause binding and is of course bad for the belt and bearings. Belt tension should be set at around 75% of travel on the tensioner. This as you know is adjusted by the pulley at the bottom right in front facing the engine so double/triple check that.

    Hesitation - Most likely not caused by your belt issue. Others on here have mentioned the same thing with different descriptions (stumble, hiccup, etc.) at gradual throttle increases in different gears and rpms. No real definitive answer to this but others are in contact with Whipple trying to work it out. I've noticed it in 4th at around 3400 rpm with gradual throttle increase but not all the time.

    Your biggest issue sounds like the belt problem and if you can get some video of it, that might be helpful. Congrats on getting the install done which took me about the same amount of time; two 12 hour days and one half day. All fun and all rewarding so far. Update us when you can.
     
  3. Roh92cp

    Roh92cp Well-Known Member

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    Rip your face off power:thumbsup: If what whipple advised doesn't work you may have to go back and reinstall the pullies and bracket, you may have missed a spacer or backing plate. As far as the hesitation goes I have it. Sometimes it's a bucking or hiccup dealing, and other times it's a hesitation as if it looses power momentarily when transitioning into boost. It doesn't happen all the time, mainly becuas it takes the right amount of throttle or engine load at the right RPM for it to happen. For me it seems like 1/3 to half throttle applied when under 3k rpm in 3rd 4th gear, so that's a lot of load.
     
  4. OP
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    Brilliant1

    Brilliant1 Member

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    Update

    Thanks for letting me know the "surge" is normal. I am having so much fun with this thing.:lol:

    Here is a video of the walk.

    [ame]



    I already removed all three idler pulleys and checked everything then retorqued. I have looked close at the belt but will make sure they are all on the right rib. Maybe against the front guide? For all grooved pulleys?
     
  5. Superman15

    Superman15 Shake n Bake

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    #5 Superman15, Apr 24, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2016
    My hesitation, hiccup, bucking has gotten progressively worse. A small hiccup or small hesitation seems pretty reasonable. However, the actual bucking gets real annoying real fast. Mine used to only do it under heavy load, such as going up a hill, and only does it in the same range you spoke of. Generally 1/3 to half throttle range. Now it does it every time I drive it, on flat land and up hill. Still hoping it is nothing major. I've done data logs, but Whipple isn't seeing anything "off" in my logs. So it appears to be mechanical. None the less, I am glad to see more people speaking on this similar condition. Whether you call is a hiccup, hesitation, whatever... I'd like to see some fixes and solutions that are taking place across the board. To give us guys some ideas and good news :) I know every car is different.. but the condition, and throttle placement and general "feeling" seems to be pretty similar for most of us. Look forward to mine being 100% and of coarse everyone else's too :)

    I need to hook up with someone locally that also has a Whipple, with a 6speed. Maybe what I feel is considered "normal" for most people. I certainly hope not, but I'd really like to see/feel a comparison in person.
     
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  6. Evo_Rob

    Evo_Rob Mmm... Boost...

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    It looks like the water pump pulley is wobbling. Remove the belt and that pulley and reinstall it and see if that fixes the issue. You can see it in the beginning of the video
     
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  7. Foxracing19931

    Foxracing19931 Well-Known Member

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    No bucking here unless I'm really tired and mess up a shift lol but the car drives silky smooth you can take my car out for a drive sometime and see if it's the same but I mean my car doesn't sound like any of that lol
     
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  8. Superman15

    Superman15 Shake n Bake

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    That would be awesome brother. Would love to meet up sometime in the near future, and let you drive mine. So you can feel what I am describing. I only get the actual bucking under load of going up hill. Other than that, it is just what most of us would consider hesitation or hiccups. To me, bucking, is when it's harsh & rapid "stop n go" type scenario. Like it's literally moving you back and forth in the seat.
     
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    Brilliant1

    Brilliant1 Member

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    Logs?

    I have heard people talk about sending their "logs" (ECU / Not brown) to whipple to verify the tune is working properly.

    How can I see such logs?

    Is it just a log of the AFR?

    I wonder if by looking at it I could see a flat spot in the tune.

    Running stock whipple tune.
     
  10. Foxracing19931

    Foxracing19931 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah idk that sounds weird and I know that feeling whenever you let go of the clutch to fast and you get that back and fourth motion lol maybe some kind of leak? Idk I'm really not a expert I'd go to the shop on route 8 I was telling you about maybe he can find something that isn't right cause I mean ever since he installed my whipple I haven't had any problems other then the stock tb causing hesitation but now that's gone it's seems as if my car is driving fantastic
     
  11. Superman15

    Superman15 Shake n Bake

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    You would need a logging tool. Such as an X4 or an Nguage. It logs much more than AFR.
     
  12. Jewishthunder

    Jewishthunder Well-Known Member

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    Anyone who's seeing/feeling that surge/hesitation in low rpms, do you think it could be contributed to the stock TB motor running such a huge TB? I've noticed if you roll past that point in the throttle it doesn't hesitate. If you try to pin it to a specific throttle point just stabbing at it, it will. I feel like the tune is trying to work quicker than the throttle body can.

    My feeling (opinion and speculation only of course) is that it's giving fuel quickly with the tune adjusting so fast, and the TB isn't catching up. So it might have a rich tip in on throttle and then lean out pulling it out of the hesitation. I feel like the logs would show that though. I haven't bought an x4 or ngauge to datalog yet though.
     
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  13. Superman15

    Superman15 Shake n Bake

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    Personally, and this is just mine specifically, it never corrects itself. The only way to correct it is to give it much more throttle, or much less. So I believe it not to be a catch up process. I do like your thoughts and theory on it tho. As it does seem very logical. It is said that most of these small issues arise from the install. Not something that was done "wrong". But an accidental pinched TB o-ring, or SC O-ring. Things like that. I don't doubt that to be true in any way, I just wish more people would report back and say, doing "X" to the car corrected my problem. I think many people get the issue corrected, and don't worry about it anymore. The "issue" draws them concern, so they ask on the forums.. but would be nice to see more responses with actual fixes that occurred to fully alleviate the problem. Or maybe I have just missed some of those responses, that is possible as well lol
     
  14. Superman15

    Superman15 Shake n Bake

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    I reached out to my local shop that did the install. If I don't hear back in the near future I will take you up on that, and contact the shop that did your install. Thanks by the way :)
     
  15. Super Werty

    Super Werty Well-Known Member

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    do you have a video of this happening? Im curious to see what it looks like
     
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