Whipple down on power, Then Motor blown

[Problem5.0]

Good Afternoon,


Looking for a little help in determining what caused my whippled GT to be down on power and then to blow on the dyno…


4 things changed when I started noticing I was down on power

-OPG install (crank relearn done after)

-Clutch (crank relearn done after)

- Mid Resonator Delete

- New wheels (Miles/rev adjusted)


My car is a 2017 Gt premium with PP, 6 speed, and 3.31 gears. The car dyno’d at 701whp and 562wtq (stock whipple tune)


After the clutch break-in period, I did a few races with a FBO C7 and pulley swapped E55 AMG. I lost to both these cars that are under 550whp.


After losing to both cars I knew my car was down on power. After letting the car cool a little, the car started back up really rough and soon leveled out to a smooth idle. I drove the car home once I thought it seemed normal. The next day i did a KOER test and got a P1101 Mass Air Flow sensor out of range and P2196 O2 Sensor Signal Biased/Stuck Rich ( bank 1 sensor 1). I then talked to a tuner buddy of mine he said clear the codes. I cleared all codes and did both a KOEO and KOER test again, no codes reappeared. I got in my car to do a few small pulls, still down on power and the car did not want to break loose at all.


I had my buddy’s shop look over the car and try to data log it slow on the dyno….No issues appeared , so thought we should go with a full power all nannies off run ….. the car put down 550whp at 5200rpm before fire ,white smoke from tailpipe and engine bay.


Things found after blown

-Valve cover is blown out the side of passenger side head

-spark plug 3 found with oil

-cylinder 3 with hole in piston

-will turn but not start


What could of the caused me to be down on power ?

Why did it blown on the dyno but no on the street ?

How do I prevent this after its fixed ?


Thanks for your time

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[Avispa]

Hole in the piston is too much timing or not enough fuel, most likely. Down on power? If you could post some more info on how the car felt when you ran it, maybe we can work through a possible answer. Any other observations, smoke, etc. may help. Last "down on power" problem I had ended up in a seized motor. The bearings were locking up (unknown until the last few seconds at idle it stopped) but not knocking.

 

[UAmach1]

Sounds like the engine initially got damaged the night you went racing and constantly driving and racing it when hurt made it worse. Driving a hurt engine on a Dyno is just dumb when you know the car has problems.

 

[Problem5.0]

Hole in the piston is too much timing or not enough fuel, most likely. Down on power? If you could post some more info on how the car felt when you ran it, maybe we can work through a possible answer. Any other observations, smoke, etc. may help. Last "down on power" problem I had ended up in a seized motor. The bearings were locking up (unknown until the last few seconds at idle it stopped) but not knocking.

to be honest i wouldn't have known it was down on power if i didn't race anyone(i thought i got used to the power). The car ran normally, no smoke and nothing out of the ordinary, other than car hooking with stock wheels ( definitely not normal)

 

[Problem5.0]

Sounds like the engine initially got damaged the night you went racing and constantly driving and racing it when hurt made it worse. Driving a hurt engine on a Dyno is just dumb when you know the car has problems.

there were no signs of engine damage from the racing ... i drove the car about a week before actually getting on the dyno ... I definitely agree a hurt motor on the dyno is dumb but the tuner couldn't find anything wrong with the car before doing a pull.


Technicians did say they heard a lot of knock in the motor during the pull but the tuner reported there was nothing on the sensors before it blew

 

[nastang87xx]

Sounds like the engine initially got damaged the night you went racing and constantly driving and racing it when hurt made it worse. Driving a hurt engine on a Dyno is just dumb when you know the car has problems.

And just clearing a code and ignoring it like it's no big deal ESPECIALLY when it has to do with the MAF or anything flow, ignition, or O2 related.

Unfortunately this is a pay to play moment. That 3rd cylinder was hurt. Probably lost compression and ratting in the bore. So yeah, no surprise that power was down. Hopefully you can salvage your block. Get it sleeved, do some pistons and rods. Do NOT reuse that head or any of that valvetrain on the party side. Otherwise you can junkyard a Gen 2 Yote and restart. Good luck because that sucks. Seriously, next time, think things through. If you're that down on power and you're throwing codes, abort. Live to fight another day. You may have been able to pull the motor and realize you only needed a new rotating assembly but now that whole side needs to be rebuilt at minimum.

 

[Copperhead73]

I burned a hole in #7 running too lean on a Termi back in 04. I noticed rough Idle first...then went to get it tuned and while tuning was down about 70hp (about 1/8th short of what I had previously made when tuning...duh). Tuner kept trying to add air because it was running so rich. Anyway, Ford did a compression check and found the hole when I took it to them after the dyno tune. The motor never did fail to run, but would have soon.

You lost power because you burned the piston, not the other way around.

Had the weather turned cold since it was tuned? Cold air will lean you out. I was fine in the summer with my tune, then leaned out too much when the weather got cold and burned it.

The tuner was very reputable back then, but it didn't occur to him that it had a hole in the piston. Systems are more advanced now..but still not sure a tuner would know you had damage just from a dyno run.

 

[Problem5.0]

And just clearing a code and ignoring it like it's no big deal ESPECIALLY when it has to do with the MAF or anything flow, ignition, or O2 related.

Unfortunately this is a pay to play moment. That 3rd cylinder was hurt. Probably lost compression and ratting in the bore. So yeah, no surprise that power was down. Hopefully you can salvage your block. Get it sleeved, do some pistons and rods. Do NOT reuse that head or any of that valvetrain on the party side. Otherwise you can junkyard a Gen 2 Yote and restart. Good luck because that sucks. Seriously, next time, think things through. If you're that down on power and you're throwing codes, abort. Live to fight another day. You may have been able to pull the motor and realize you only needed a new rotating assembly but now that whole side needs to be rebuilt at minimum.

I had a shop tear down the motor and say i only needed a short block. Are you sure that i need to replace the head ?

 

[Problem5.0]

I burned a hole in #7 running too lean on a Termi back in 04. I noticed rough Idle first...then went to get it tuned and while tuning was down about 70hp (about 1/8th short of what I had previously made...duh). Tuner kept trying to add air because it was running so rich. Anyway, Ford did a scope and found the hole.

You lost power because you burned the piston, not the other way around.

Had the weather turned cold since it was tuned? Cold air will lean you out. I was fine in the summer with my tune, then leaned out too much when the weather got cold and burned it.

The tuner was very reputable back then, but it didn't occur to him that it had a hole in the piston. Systems are more advanced now..but still not sure a tuner would know you had damage just from a dyno run.

it has definitely gotten colder but the tune is a stock whipple tune... The car usually runs about 11 AFR under WOT @ high rpm... shouldn't that make it safer?

 

[nastang87xx]

I had a shop tear down the motor and say i only needed a short block. Are you sure that i need to replace the head ?

Well if they inspected it then roll with it. Just knowing when you break a piston, those fragments bounce around the chamber. But if they say you're good then you're good. Do what the shop says because they'll know best.

 

[Copperhead73]

it has definitely gotten colder but the tune is a stock whipple tune... The car usually runs about 11 AFR under WOT @ high rpm... shouldn't that make it safer?

I meant to offer condolences earlier...I am sorry you had this trouble. It is a heartbreaker. To answer your question, on the termi, I was running 11.2:1 the last time it was tuned before I had the trouble. I added a Densecharger CAI after that tune, which would have been fine if the weather hadn't changed. I got on it on the way to work one morning when temp was 40ish, and that is when I did the damage. It was tuned at 70. The temp change plus CAI put me in danger. No idea if 11:1 is fat on a coyote. It was fairly aggressive on those Termi motors though.

I traded that 03 for a new 04, went to a KB blower, and tuned to 10.5:1 after that. Also, the 03 motor had a water circulation problem Ford fixed in 04. But I am certain the piston burning was the cause of your power loss.

 

[DavidHuff]

What is the mileage on your Whipple Tune?

 

[Problem5.0]

What is the mileage on your Whipple Tune?

i probably have about 11k miles since the Whipple was install

 

[Copperhead73]

Also does OPG impact timing at all? If so, does the calibration you mentioned account for that? Had you reduced octane at all?

 

[Balr14]

In the old days, any indication of power degradation meant an immediate teardown. Something is damaged.

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