Whipple car runs bad - tune issues

[jgedde]

[MENTION=24062]jgedde[/MENTION]
How did you alter your throttle response?
I assume you’re talking specifically about the relationship between pedal and ETC_ACT

There are two simple ways to do this... HP Tuners has a single lookup table for each of three modes: winter, sport and Normal. These tables allow you to specify how much throttle you want for any given pedal travel amount. In other words, pedal position in, remapped throttle position out.

As far as response - how fast the throttle reacts - one way this is changed is by modifying the Integral gain term in the "Feedback Control" section of the ETC setup. A higher number will make the throttle respond faster - but can make the car jumpy if you go too far. There is probably a way to get the best of both worlds by adding in some proportional gain with a smaller integral term, but I haven't played with that concept yet.

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[jgedde]

Hey guys,

I've had quite a few PMs asking for my tune file. I need to add this publicly:

In no way am I an expert tuner. If you use the tune, it's at your own risk. While I believe what I did is safe, if you break something, well...

I do not recommend just taking the file and flashing your car with it directly. That is NOT a good thing to do. It is to be used as a reference by which you can modify the tune you already have. An easy way to see what's different is to use the Compare function in HP Tuners VCM editor.

Also, if you want the tune file, you'll need to PM me with your email address. It doesn't seem possible to attach a file to a PM.

Lastly, some have asked where anti-shuffle settings are in VCM Editor. Oddly it's in the ETC setup even though it seems to affect spark timing...

 

[HextallS550]

I noticed first that my timing was rapidly jumping back and forth about 4 degrees whenever the car was stumbling. To those with some HP Tuner's experience, my "Spark Source" was jumping between "Borderline" and "Torque Control" modes. In general, torque control mode is pulling timing. The trick was to find out why it was happening. After reading many forum posts and endless hours of research, I found that the manual transmission cars have something called "Anti-Shuffle logic." I have not seen any information as to exactly what this does, but the consensus is that turning it off is kind of a cure-all for a bunch of strange behaviors folks have with their specific tunes.

I turned it off, and voila, my timing ain't jumping around any more.

The tune I am running is based off Whipple's "v7" tune with PE coming in sooner than 90% throttle. I have also made a bunch of other tweaks here and there, including tailoring my accelerator pedal feel and throttle response to be exactly how I want it.

The moral of the story always ends up the same for me. If you want something done right, do it yourself.

PM me if you want my tune file....

John

John, Anti Shuffle Logic is meant to actively adjust engine torque to smooth out the launch. I'd be interested in seeing your .hpt file. I'm seeing WAAAAY too much bad advice from people on this board.

Let me give you guys the best piece of advice that I (someone who's paid to test this shit at the OE level) can give; buy Greg Banish's Blu Ray on FI, buy his DVD on Ford calibrating and then read every single article, book, and forum post of his you can. The reality of this stuff is that unless you have a high level understanding of the systems and the way they interact, the reasons why Ford is using certain logic and why turning things off or maxing out limits is NEVER the answer you will simply be a hack ass "tooner" and you will break shit.

 

[JennyStang]

The guy above classic

 

[HextallS550]

Model Based Predictive Engine Torque Control forImproved Driveability.
-[/I] Murat ÖTKÜR et al.]

Anti-jerk works in an open loop manner using look-up tables and main control strategy is to slew the pedal oriented torque request especially in backlash transition region and do not have close loop feedback control. The drawback of anti-jerk feature is it is a subjective calibration methodology and outcome is strongly dependant on calibrator’s performance. Additionally filling look-up tables for all gear, engine speed and pedal position combinations requires significant amount of development time

Replace "Anti-Jerk" with the Ford term "Anti-Shuffle" which is referenced in several of Ford's patent filings and you get the gist. Also pay attention to the part in red; development time = big $$$, something that even Whipple has cited as the reason for calibration issues.

The guy above classic

I'm just getting sick of all the BS, the tuner hero worship and the outright fallacies being spread in regards to boosted cars and calibrations.

 

[jgedde]

Replace "Anti-Jerk" with the Ford term "Anti-Shuffle" which is referenced in several of Ford's patent filings and you get the gist. Also pay attention to the part in red; development time = big $$$, something that even Whipple has cited as the reason for calibration issues.



I'm just getting sick of all the BS, the tuner hero worship and the outright fallacies being spread in regards to boosted cars and calibrations.

Thanks for that explanation. It makes perfect sense now and fits with my hesitation issue. Sounds like the anti-shuffle timing drop is a symptom not the cause....

John

 

[Tomlouns]

so realistically it seems as though the engine and drivability is dependent on Gas / IAT. Look forward to seeing the logs man and hope Whipple can get you sorted.

Ken at palm beach dyno just put up a video in which he mentioned that a ton of the cars he sees have a vacuum leak between the upper and lower units at the bypass valve o-ring.

If it was installed wrong you can see the gasket sticking out of the bottom of the front of the blower.

 

[Tomlouns]

 

[Tomlouns]

The top photo is the wrong way to do it and the bottom one is the correct way. If you do not read the instructions carefully it is an easy mistake to make. It even fits better in the first photo... but it causes a major vacuum leak and the car will idle like Sh!t. It takes some time to work the ring into position but once it is in place it fits perfectly.

 

[Ldawn318]

I’m here because my car runs like crap after Whipple install and tune. Sent data log and not much communication since.

 

[Platinum_5.0]

I’m here because my car runs like crap after Whipple install and tune. Sent data log and not much communication since.

Describe the issues.

 

[Whipple SC]

Gonna need a bit more info. The same cal for the past few years has been pretty solid which normally means there’s another issue causing the issues.

 

[Ldawn318]

While driving at 50% throttle and less the car operates normal excluding the excessive backfiring. However, once I really get on the gas the rpms do not increase as they should, the car never goes into boost, and my vacuum gauge shoots over to zero. I sent my data log to Jeff Monday morning as requested, but there has not been any communication since unless I initiated it.

Each issue I’ve encountered thus far has been responded to by going to the website enter the issue in the customer support section and we will get back with you. Communicating via email after spending this sum of money on a product is not my preferred way of communicating.

 

[engineermike]

Almost sounds like the iat2 connected to wrong place issue.

 

[Ldawn318]

Almost sounds like the iat2 connected to wrong place issue.

Which is the three prong to two prong then on top of the intercooler? Is there more then one connector that can fit?

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