Which camber plates, mm or vorslag?

[MikeR397]

OP - I know you only mentioned the MM and Vorshlag. Just wanted to toss another vote to consider Steeda.

I spent 2 weeks hee-hawing around. In the end I went with Steeda because they seemed to be the only option that retained the OEM upper strut mount. (someone please correct me if that's a wrong statement).

Anyways, I'm not nearly good enough at the track, and I wanted something that would maintain a sense of stockish mannerisms with some extra adjustment. Of course YMMV, that's just what fit my personal needs.

I got the Steeda plates. Have everything out, going to find a spring compressor to borrow to get the plates on and put everything back together. The YouTube video was pretty close, just careful detach the magnaride wire (the video was a gt witjout it), different caliper 60t be 15mm, and I literally could not tap the 24mm splined bolts out of the spindle attachment with a regular hammer, had to “gently” use a sledge hammer lol, my next step up form the hammer, and still took quite a few good hits to get them to start popping out.

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[MikeR397]

So once I get this back together, gotta get an alignment. My buddy works at a Toyota dealer and offered to do it with me for free. I see the ford suggested track specs on an R with cup 2 to -1.75 front and -1.25 rear (rear which can be done without extra hardware somehow?). Do I want to be more aggressive than ford suggestions?

I run in advanced and am usually near the fastest vehicle at any track day but no pro obviously, pretty aggressive, this is 70% track car 30% street car (ie dont want complete shit tramlining on street but get that’s what happens). I run mostly Waterford hills, M1 concourse, and a few days at Grattan, maybe one at mid Ohio or gingerman.

It seems others have had good experience with -2 or -2.25 even on front and what on rear? Stay at -1.25 rear? My rears look much better wear as stock setup than front. Still have outside tread lines after 2 days unlike front.

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[nastang87xx]

I have the MM plates. For the money I'm not good enough to get the full benefit of another .7 or so degrees of camber. I was able to get -2.4 out of my MM plates if I remember correctly. I know it was under 2.5 though but well over 2.0.

 

[foxcoupefan]

I have the MM plates. For the money I'm not good enough to get the full benefit of another .7 or so degrees of camber. I was able to get -2.4 out of my MM plates if I remember correctly. I know it was under 2.5 though but well over 2.0.

MM plates are a great plate for sure and definitely the "standard" IMHO . I have put them on four of my Fox bodies and my new PP2 car. I got slightly over 2.5 degrees on them without opening up my towers which a lot of people said was impossible. However, I have dialed back to 2 degrees since the car will see more Cars and Coffee than track until next year.

If I would have to guess, I have installed no less than 25 sets of CC plates over the years for my self, friends and for customers when my father had a race shop. I just did a set of Vorshlag plates on my buddy's new to him 2018 GT350. They are a fine product, but double the price of an MM plate. I have had good luck with the MM plate so I will track my car with them for a bit to see if they are as good as I remember in the past.

I have now done two friend's Magneride cars and my personal car twice (Magneride equipped); I can knock out a front spring and plate install on a S550 with Magneride in 40min total, including jacking it up and wheel removal; no joke! I did however notice the amount of camber I could get on each car did vary quite a bit. It goes to show these car's geometry can be off some from one unit to the next.

 

[MikeR397]

All put back together except the instructions and videos never mentioned needing a special strut socket to use a torque wrench and socket on the strut nut to 70lbs. My buddy at a shop used his spring compressor and two wrenches (10mm and 22mm) to torque it to perhaps 50lbs (guess). The video just shows the guy using a 22mm socket and torquing it, but for me it just spins indefinitely and does not torque the nut unless you hold the strut shaft with a 10mm (which you cannot do while using a normal socket since the deep socket covers the shaft) Anyway, it’s on enough to drive it to the dealer and I’ll have ford torque it to 70ftlbs when they align it. They only charge $99 for an alignment which I was surprised to hear.

I decided to go with -2.25 front and -1.50 rear. Steeda plates say -2.8 front adjustment so I presume that is on top of the stock -1 setup and they can actually go to -3.8 (ignoring strut tower opening fitment), or do they only go to -2.8 degrees total?

Curious, so the shop has to loosen the 3 strut tower nuts to push the strut in to allow for more camber during alignment? Then they tighten those nuts down to 37lbs after aligned to lock it in?

I’m also still confused if I can mark a track and street setting and be ok wrt to the toe (is without getting a net alignment each time I change settings on the plate?)

Eta: video from Steeda shows simply using a torque wrench to tighten strut nut, somehow without holding the strut shaft???

 

[TheDeadCow]

Front camber is limited by the shock shaft & shock tower opening, regardless of camber plate design. If you add camber until the shaft touches the tower opening, you should get ~-2.8 deg.

 

[MikeR397]

Front camber is limited by the shock shaft & shock tower opening, regardless of camber plate design. If you add camber until the shaft touches the tower opening, you should get ~-2.8 deg.

Thank you, very helpful!

Do you know if it’s feasible for me to just slide the shaft in/out for track days as needed, or how much will this screw toe up? Alignments multiple times a year is not really an option I want.

It’s mostly a track car, but I do like to put 1500-2000 road miles too, especially if I’m driving a couple hundred miles to mid Ohio or 100 miles to Grattan.

 

[Tomster]

Thank you, very helpful!

Do you know if it’s feasible for me to just slide the shaft in/out for track days as needed, or how much will this screw toe up? Alignments multiple times a year is not really an option I want.

It’s mostly a track car, but I do like to put 1500-2000 road miles too, especially if I’m driving a couple hundred miles to mid Ohio or 100 miles to Grattan.

Anytime you change the camber, you are affecting the tow. If you are not running a hard core track alignment with gobs of negative camber, align it once. I get the impression you dont do a lot of this. Set the FP recommended track alignment and forget about it.

 

[MikeR397]

I got my R aligned at Ford after the Steeda plates went on. I’m a little confused about the results. I asked for -2.1 front and -1.25 rear and got Mis matched front cambers at -2.1 and -2.3 passenger and the rear was only done to -1.1 instead of -1.25.

Also, how was the driver rear at -1.6 initially (car has never been aligned and I bought it new 2600 miles ago) and then moved to -1.1 and the toe stayed the exact same? I presume this car has rear toe adjustment and the machine kept the toe the same?

In any event, why are 3 of my 4 requested specs not done? They charged 2.5hrs of time did this. I gave them the ford specs and said just do that except -2.1 front camber as the only change. The tech was gone so I couldn’t ask and was hoping to get some indepentanf details here first. It’s close enough for me to test out, but also concerned about mismatched front cambers.

Edit: my rears prior had actually been wearing pretty well, and concerned they now too so much negative out it will cause outsides to wear fast. I don’t understand these before or after specs!

 

[honeybadger]

I got my R aligned at Ford after the Steeda plates went on. I’m a little confused about the results. I asked for -2.1 front and -1.25 rear and got Mis matched front cambers at -2.1 and -2.3 passenger and the rear was only done to -1.1 instead of -1.25.

Also, how was the driver rear at -1.6 initially (car has never been aligned and I bought it new 2600 miles ago) and then moved to -1.1 and the toe stayed the exact same? I presume this car has rear toe adjustment and the machine kept the toe the same?

In any event, why are 3 of my 4 requested specs not done? They charged 2.5hrs of time did this. I gave them the ford specs and said just do that except -2.1 front camber as the only change. The tech was gone so I couldn’t ask and was hoping to get some indepentanf details here first. It’s close enough for me to test out, but also concerned about mismatched front cambers.

Edit: my rears prior had actually been wearing pretty well, and concerned they now too so much negative out it will cause outsides to wear fast. I don’t understand these before or after specs!

Rear camber is REALLY hard to be accurate with on these cars using the factory parts. Seems like your guy got it "close enough" and moved on. -1.1 is most definitely not enough for track use.

 

[MikeR397]

Rear camber is REALLY hard to be accurate with on these cars using the factory parts. Seems like your guy got it "close enough" and moved on. -1.1 is most definitely not enough for track use.

But it was -1.6 before on the driver rear. So he over shot by 12% in the opposite direction, called it a day, and then billed 2.5hrs labor?

So do I go back and bitch this isn’t acceptable?

 

[honeybadger]

But it was -1.6 before on the driver rear. So he over shot by 12% in the opposite direction, called it a day, and then billed 2.5hrs labor?

So do I go back and bitch this isn’t acceptable?

Was this at a dealership? If you explicitly asked for it to be aligned to "track settings" or the Ford Performance settings, I most definitely would. To me, it kind of looks like they followed the recommended OEM settings for street use and ignored your specific ask.

For alignments, I highly recommend finding a speed shop experienced in this stuff. They're a lot more knowledgeable about how camber affects tire wear, etc. on track.

 

[MikeR397]

I agree about going to a experienced Indy shop. This was a local mega ford dealer I bought the R from.

I printed off the FP specs, crossed off the base 350 settings, and circled the R setting and wrote in -2.1 for front instead. I also wrote up a paragraph explaining this clearly and I know my service guy gave all this to “the best guy they have.” The specs they went too are far from street as well.

I guess I will call and ask to speak to the tech at least as to why he didn’t follow the rear settings by a significant margin and why the passenger front is -.02 more than I asked for and mismatched the driver side. I have no idea how the toe settings they did are going to affect things, but that’s not right either.

 

[fpa1974]

I agree about going to a experienced Indy shop. This was a local mega ford dealer I bought the R from.

I printed off the FP specs, crossed off the base 350 settings, and circled the R setting and wrote in -2.1 for front instead. I also wrote up a paragraph explaining this clearly and I know my service guy gave all this to “the best guy they have.” The specs they went too are far from street as well.

I guess I will call and ask to speak to the tech at least as to why he didn’t follow the rear settings by a significant margin and why the passenger front is -.02 more than I asked for and mismatched the driver side. I have no idea how the toe settings they did are going to affect things, but that’s not right either.

I would not necessarily sweat a 0.1 (maybe 0.2) difference. The important thing is to get the settings you want. And the rear of the car is indeed on the tricky side stock to get it 'perfect'. Also consider that weight of driver is not accounted for (unless you were in the driver seat when they did it). The lesson learned is next time I would go to a specialized shop - they are usually more knowledgeable and speak the same language

 

[fpa1974]

And this is my latest one (track pack GT350 with FP springs) to illustrate my point above.

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