br_an
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Himalayian Pink Salt, Coarse Grain
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Whitedevil95
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I've been running Driven FR50 5w-50 since in installed the whipple 2 years ago. Motor oil designed specifically for the Ford Coyote Engines with VVT.
br_an
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Kosher is good, can't go wrong with either one!
96gt4.6
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I mean you're spending like 8k+ already on the Whipple kit....what's another $100 for oil on top of that?
Personally, I never questioned the reasons they recommend it.
5w50 Motorcraft since the Whipple install. 15k miles on the kit, 1 week on the road for Rocky Mountain Race Week last year, probably over a couple hundred pulls on the street by now, and the combo does nothing but work.
I change it out twice a year, usually after RMRW as it's a pretty tough week on the car running across 3 states and 4 tracks, ect. We did 1700 miles last year on the race.
I cut every filter open, so far nothing at all in the media. These things take quite a bit of abuse and really don't seem to care. But, I figured Whipple and Ford have a reason they run the 5w50 in certain applications, and now Whipple is the provider for the Ford Performance kit for the F150's on the 5.0L kit I see.
just my experience/opinion.
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01gt46
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Wasn’t really questioning why they recommend it. I ended up getting that oil, just can’t believe how hard it is to find. I went to 5 different auto part stores, nobody had it. The Ford dealership had it but they were $134 for just the oil. I ended up getting it from Rock Auto. Next time I might try to order it from O’Reilly’s as someone above mentioned.
Honestly I’ve never thought much (either way) of Motorcraft oil, I’ve always run Mobil 1.
Angrey
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Ahhh, internet oil threads.
The biggest issue with motor oil is that it's a diminishing product.
The product that you buy (in the bottle) isn't the same by the end of your service interval.
Most PAO based oils "cut" very quickly. Within a few hundred miles, instead of the rated cST out of the bottle, they settle in to roughly a straight 40 weight oil. It's a big reduction. From around 21 cST (Motorcraft 5w-50) to around 14 cST (a typical 40 weight).
So the question becomes, did the engine builder intend for lubricant with a viscosity at 21 or at 14? If you run oil that's too thick for the bearing clearance, it can't penetrate properly to form the proper film. If you run oil that's too soupy, it penetrates well, but the film is puny and not providing as much lubrication and protection.
Aside from the rest of the system dimensions with respect to fittings, orifices, diameters (all the things that move and contain the oil) the biggest determinant of desired oil weight has to do with bearing clearances. A secondary issue is whether the pumps and lines and fittings were designed to flow properly at the design viscosity (i.e. you can't suck really thick coffee through a coffee straw).
The wide blend oils (like 5w-50) are intended to provide protection across a WIDE RANGE of temperatures and cover you for the biggest threat conditions to the motor. Cold startup and high rpm/heat abuse.
The other factor at play here is most big name motor oils are designed to comply with criteria set by agencies and OEM's that don't necessarily translate to performance. The EPA wants your oil to maximize fuel economy and not vaporize or inhibit catalytic converter functions (that burn off as much hydrocarbons as they can).
That leads to them limiting certain things that are very beneficial to protecting your engine but at odds with other things they find important. So ZDDP which is very beneficial for cold condition friction, especially for things that have very high contact forces like aftermarket valve springs, cam lobe to lifter contact, etc. There's plenty of literature on the benefits of anti-wear additives and zinc/phosphorus and protecting the life of your rotating components.
But ZDDP also wrecks your catalytic converters. So modern oils tend to limit it, especially if they want to secure certifications for use across a bunch of automotive applications (that involve cats).
The other factor that's coming into view as of late is Calcium content and how bad it can be for low rpm spontaneous detonation. High calcium creates conditions favorable to preignition and knock if you lug the motor (typical of a highway passing scenario where the car is asked to accelerate without a gear change, loading the motor).
In the end, I've tried to communicate that if you aren't driving the car like a taxi cab for 300k miles and if you aren't totally flogging the hell out of the motor (like full on race team stuff) you probably won't ever notice a difference between average lubricants and high end lubricants.
It would take us weighing the components initially and after long or harsh use to see if there's mass loss through friction and to be honest, most people won't ever feel or notice one way or the other.
lastly, your oil selection isn't all or nothing. It's not like if you choose this oil it's going to work and if you don't it's not. These debates tend to steer toward "this is the right answer and everyone else is wrong." When the reality is more akin to "Brunettes are better than blondes and here's why"
Race only oils don't have the same goals or restrictions as wide use oils. Cost, EPA concerns, cold start conditions (it's different for a race team that warms the motor properly and doesn't race in Alaska in February or try to start their motor up in Michigan in -10F conditions).
At the end of the day, lots of stuff will "work" but if you want the BEST choice, then pick something with a high HTHS (for the required weight/blend) has a high level of ZDDP, has a high level of Moly, has a good NOACK and as a consolation prize, has anti-froth additives (to reduce aeration and voids in the oil). All modern oils essentially have detergents and contaminant trapping compounds.
Race oils tend to start as a DIFFERENT material. Imagine telling everyone they have to create the strongest bike frame and handing them all blocks of Aluminum. Then telling the race vendors they can use whatever they want (Carbon Fiber, Titanium, Etc).
Race oils tend to start off as either esther based (or esther blends) or MPAO stock, which helps to reduce and delay the effects of shearing and viscosity drop over time. The PAO based oils (typical) have to generally add a bunch of chemical tricks to get them up to INITIAL viscosity and weight. This is why they tend to cut and shear rather quickly to a lower grade.
The biggest issue with motor oil is that it's a diminishing product.
The product that you buy (in the bottle) isn't the same by the end of your service interval.
Most PAO based oils "cut" very quickly. Within a few hundred miles, instead of the rated cST out of the bottle, they settle in to roughly a straight 40 weight oil. It's a big reduction. From around 21 cST (Motorcraft 5w-50) to around 14 cST (a typical 40 weight).
So the question becomes, did the engine builder intend for lubricant with a viscosity at 21 or at 14? If you run oil that's too thick for the bearing clearance, it can't penetrate properly to form the proper film. If you run oil that's too soupy, it penetrates well, but the film is puny and not providing as much lubrication and protection.
Aside from the rest of the system dimensions with respect to fittings, orifices, diameters (all the things that move and contain the oil) the biggest determinant of desired oil weight has to do with bearing clearances. A secondary issue is whether the pumps and lines and fittings were designed to flow properly at the design viscosity (i.e. you can't suck really thick coffee through a coffee straw).
The wide blend oils (like 5w-50) are intended to provide protection across a WIDE RANGE of temperatures and cover you for the biggest threat conditions to the motor. Cold startup and high rpm/heat abuse.
The other factor at play here is most big name motor oils are designed to comply with criteria set by agencies and OEM's that don't necessarily translate to performance. The EPA wants your oil to maximize fuel economy and not vaporize or inhibit catalytic converter functions (that burn off as much hydrocarbons as they can).
That leads to them limiting certain things that are very beneficial to protecting your engine but at odds with other things they find important. So ZDDP which is very beneficial for cold condition friction, especially for things that have very high contact forces like aftermarket valve springs, cam lobe to lifter contact, etc. There's plenty of literature on the benefits of anti-wear additives and zinc/phosphorus and protecting the life of your rotating components.
But ZDDP also wrecks your catalytic converters. So modern oils tend to limit it, especially if they want to secure certifications for use across a bunch of automotive applications (that involve cats).
The other factor that's coming into view as of late is Calcium content and how bad it can be for low rpm spontaneous detonation. High calcium creates conditions favorable to preignition and knock if you lug the motor (typical of a highway passing scenario where the car is asked to accelerate without a gear change, loading the motor).
In the end, I've tried to communicate that if you aren't driving the car like a taxi cab for 300k miles and if you aren't totally flogging the hell out of the motor (like full on race team stuff) you probably won't ever notice a difference between average lubricants and high end lubricants.
It would take us weighing the components initially and after long or harsh use to see if there's mass loss through friction and to be honest, most people won't ever feel or notice one way or the other.
lastly, your oil selection isn't all or nothing. It's not like if you choose this oil it's going to work and if you don't it's not. These debates tend to steer toward "this is the right answer and everyone else is wrong." When the reality is more akin to "Brunettes are better than blondes and here's why"
Race only oils don't have the same goals or restrictions as wide use oils. Cost, EPA concerns, cold start conditions (it's different for a race team that warms the motor properly and doesn't race in Alaska in February or try to start their motor up in Michigan in -10F conditions).
At the end of the day, lots of stuff will "work" but if you want the BEST choice, then pick something with a high HTHS (for the required weight/blend) has a high level of ZDDP, has a high level of Moly, has a good NOACK and as a consolation prize, has anti-froth additives (to reduce aeration and voids in the oil). All modern oils essentially have detergents and contaminant trapping compounds.
Race oils tend to start as a DIFFERENT material. Imagine telling everyone they have to create the strongest bike frame and handing them all blocks of Aluminum. Then telling the race vendors they can use whatever they want (Carbon Fiber, Titanium, Etc).
Race oils tend to start off as either esther based (or esther blends) or MPAO stock, which helps to reduce and delay the effects of shearing and viscosity drop over time. The PAO based oils (typical) have to generally add a bunch of chemical tricks to get them up to INITIAL viscosity and weight. This is why they tend to cut and shear rather quickly to a lower grade.
Steve68Cougar
Well-Known Member
Here's another one for O'Reilly's ship to home on Motorcraft 5W50. They almost always have a percentage off code for purchases over $100 (or similar dollar amount). My last purchase was 20% off of their usual $8.99/quart. I usually just get a case of it plus a few other things like filters to get the total over $100.
Superman112
Well-Known Member
Sorry to resurrect this thread but just did my 1st oil change since getting the Odin on my 2017 GT PP. went with the motorcraft 5w50 but have noticed my oil pressure gauge is reading higher then before. Should I be worried? Now I’m thinking maybe I should have run with a 5/30 or 5/40. I’m in upstate NY so it still gets cold at night.
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Superman112
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Thanks
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