What impact will battery weight have on future real Mustangs if Hybrid or full EV?

[shogun32]

16 x $3.67 = $58.72

29.2miles x 365 = 10,658miles/ 19mpg = 561g x $3.67 = $2,058.87 per year

Even in Metro DC I only pay $3.07 for 93 oct.

ICE emits carbon dioxide which is essential to life on this planet so that trumps all other considerations.

ICE vs EV is not a simple financial choice based on contrived napkin math. If your use case makes EV compelling, have at it.

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[Mr. Met]

Can I get this info in SPG?

 

[Reddirocket27]

Tesla M3 Performance is low, fast AF and has perfect handling because all the weight is in the floor. They could easily do the same for a Mustang. Mach-E is the shape it is to compete with the crossover market, the name has nothing to do with anything, other than marketing.

 

[Fly2High]

How about taking into account winter driving. Do the same EV drive in winter where battery output drops and you will use the current to run a heater.

Not everyone lives in a warm climate.

What are we down to about 50 -60% capacity in cold weather and some of that capacity has to be used for heat?

Let's also add in morning charging instead of end of ride charging so some of the juice is used to warm the packs. Nice waste of electricity.

Now, let's factor in the cost of my time. If a cross country road trip will burn an extra 8 hours of my time, THAT is expensive. Who wants to reduce a vacation by a day because of the car you drive and instead spend it at charging stations?

Give me the best and worst case and I can decide for myself.

We all know EVs do better around town and are not as good for hwy/long trips.

 

[thunderstrike]

Let the 747 fly on batteries. I'll buy an electric vehicle, then.

 

[emcmtony]

Beside the hypocritical aspect that batteries in cars of the current generation are good for our environment, I can cope with the reasoning that this market was created for EVs by some early inventors and those manufacturers who are not participating (if they want or not) will have opportunity costs and that cannot happen. That EVs of the current generation are highly impractical might not even matter to them but it should at least matter to those thinking about affording a EV vehicle. This fact is not spoken about openly by manufacturers or in politics. But hey if governments are pushing this technology it has to be done, do they even have a choice to skip it ?
Realistically, right now with our current battery technology I find it 100% wasteful to get a EV if manufacturers are not guaranteeing free upgrades for old battery tech for they consumers. EV right now does marginally work only because there are so few around. I do not see it scale for the majority of people for daily use. I do not request the perfect solution, that will take time to achieve but I want to see intermediate plans and solutions to prevent an ev-chaos in our streets.

I don't buy into the ev-hype as long as the basic technology (batteries or better alternative) is not brough to near perfection including at least the following guarantees: maximum safety so that batteries are not a safetly hazzard, actual environmentally-neutral feasability, much better energy storage density, solutions for maintaining a healthy charge without waiting and watching hours for it to happen, chargability everywhere.

My question has always been this: We have to charge the batteries from household power that is supplied from for the most part fossil fuels. I am not smart enough to know how that converts, but my general knowledge tells me that if you convert fossil fuels to battery power and then use the battery to move a car, it is not a ton more efficient than just running the car off of fossil fuels. Until our electrical grid is rid of fossil fuels as a main supplier, the EVs don't make real impacts, only make people feel better for saving energy...right?

 

[thunderstrike]

Dude, get realistic.

So, you think California will do okay beyond 2035 with all electric new cars?

 

[shogun32]

Until our electrical grid is rid of fossil fuels as a main supplier

ask Texas how that little ditty went down a few months ago... Fossil fuels (or nuclear) will ALWAYS be the bulk provider of electrical energy.

 

[emcmtony]

I agree it is more efficient but I question how people assume it is very much more efficient. The power has to be generated from somewhere so unless they are off the grid and going straight off solar, it is not as efficient as the EV sellers would like you to believe.

It actually is more efficient though. You have to consider the economy of scale for a powerplant. Their emissions are also better controlled/captured in ways that wouldn't be feasible in a car. The only scenario where this isn't true would be a country with 100% coal plants. The US is only around 11% and falling. Renewables are on the rise as well.
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[Cobra Jet]

Let's do some napkin math, kids love napkin math:

My goal is to create a gas-powered Tesla, and see how it performs (in my mind )

Model 3 Performance weighs 4,250 lbs.

The battery pack accounts for 1,060 lbs. of that.

I can't find any specs on the Model 3 specifically, but the single-motor from a Model S is 70lbs., putting our napkin dual-motor Model 3 at roughly 140 lbs. of motor.

Our stripped out Model 3 now weighs only 3,050 lbs.

Now let's put in 445 lbs. of Coyote and 100 lbs. of gas.

The Coyote powered Model 3 is around 3,600 lbs.

Now let's compare 1/4 mile times, the ultimate car performance metric. No, the ONLY car performance metric

The Model 3 Performance does the quarter in 11.5/117.3 (Motortrend)
My Coyote powered Tesla got an 11.48/117.86 (ET calculator)

What's my point? The weight matters, regardless of how low it is. It slows the car in the straights, and in corners. Are they fast? Yes, but they don't violate the laws of physics.

Chop that battery weight in half (3,750 lbs. total weight) and the thing will run 11.1/121.2 (ET calculator). It'll also handle and stop better (again, physics).

That's what I'm waiting for: a car that ballpark weighs about as much as my current Mustang, has the same 200-250 miles range, which most importantly must be able to fill that range in under 5 minutes.

It also can't be a crossover

And that response by Mik is the point and meat of this thread...

Everyone wants to keep touting how great an EV is - but it's not really, not when totally dissecting it.

As much as it would be cool to have a Cobra Jet 1400 or a Mustang Lithium for eventual normal street production, ALL EV's are heavy pigs and it's a disposable POS after the battery has been depleted. After battery warranty expires, no one is going to want to outlay thousands of dollars for a battery replacement.

These EV Greenie pushers are going to see an increase in:

• catastrophic EV vehicle related fires
• over burdened landfills that can't completely recycle all of the battery elements sufficiently and efficiently
• excessive pollution caused by the mining and manufacturing of needed battery components and hardware needed for EV circuit boards, motor casings, motor windings etc.
• decimation of earth's resources needed for these huge EV battery packs and related electrical components
• Strain on world wide electric grids
• Additional needs for fossil fuels, nuclear, power grids, replacement of old infrastructure with new or complete new infrastructure, etc. to keep electricity flowing without interruptions for increased demands

EV production has the potential to cause global issues faster than the last 135 year impact of ICE powered vehicle production and use. Place your bets now.

Oh but Greenies say EV is "so clean"... says those who know nothing about how that electricity gets to their outlets in their homes or businesses. Oh it's easy to put in charging stations, oh I just "plug in".... sure, sure you do... yes it's as easy as one of those Staples Store 'easy' buttons when one has blinders on and follows the sheeple. They just don't get the overall impact massive EV production will have with now thousands and eventually millions of EV autos being "plugged in" to become green.

The three major categories of energy for electricity generation are fossil fuels (coal, natural gas, and petroleum), nuclear energy, and renewable energy sources. Most electricity is generated with steam turbines using fossil fuels, nuclear, biomass, geothermal, and solar thermal energy. Other major electricity generation technologies include gas turbines, hydro turbines, wind turbines, and solar photovoltaics.

Source: https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/electricity/electricity-in-the-us.php

So, while converting ICE to EV, think about the large scale impact of what is needed to generate the electricity coming to that charging station to juice up that huge EV skateboard battery.

It's so "easy" and "green", NOT.

 

[BTDUBS]

I see a couple of ways forward with EVs. Clearly lithium mining is not sustainable, but the battery packs are good for about 400k miles, so at least they last. That said, battery technology is coming a long way very quickly. If people could just get over the stigma, nuclear power is very clean with modern reactors, they don’t have the waste problem that older ones do.

The bonuses are cars that are frighteningly fast, go drive a Tesla 100d, ignore the terrible build quality and sociopathic CEO and the power rush is just insane.

All that said, they can pry my cue ball shifter out of my cold, lifeless hands.

 

[shogun32]

Everyone wants to keep touting how great an EV is - but it's not really, not when totally dissecting it.

paper was published last week that showed the CO2 benefits of EV adoption was negligible if not easily worse than ICE. The social and environmental costs of EV manufacture are also non-trivial and have yet to be solved adequately.

 

[shogun32]

"Paper"..."Published"

don't worry you won't have to read it. They used Walnuts in the ink formulation and to clean the platen between printings.

 

[Mr. Met]

How are you not skewing the numbers? You are purposelessly using a scenario 99.99% of people will not encounter. Normal everyday use bears out very different numbers.

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