What Dyno Tested "NA" Mods actually increase HP Above 500wp on 93 pump?

[NGOT8R]

There really doesn't seem to be a lot of information out there for NA Coyotes which leads me to believe that there isn't much there to be had. Especially for the amount of money that it ends up costing. The second most interesting thing, however; is in every one of these threads where somebody rules out E85 from the beginning somebody always has to say E85 anyway. It's baffling.

I always suggest E85 from the standpoint of getting it all done at once for one price on 18+ cars, since nothing but fuel and the tune is needed. Even if it’s not readily available, I think it would be worth it to the end user to buy some E85 by the pail and tune for it, that way he/she will have the option to run it if it does became readily available. When I had my car tuned, it cost $879 for the nGauge, 93 tune, Flex tune and E85 tune. I did have to pay an additional $500 for the nitrous tune though. With tunes/tuners being as expensive as they are, I say get the most bang for your buck and get all three tunes.

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[Jaymar]

I always suggest E85 from the standpoint of getting it all done at once for one price on 18+ cars, since nothing but fuel and the tune is needed. Even if it’s not readily available, I think it would be worth it to the end user to buy some E85 by the pail and tune for it, that way he/she will have the option to run it if it does became readily available. When I had my car tuned, it cost $879 for the nGauge, 93 tune, Flex tune and E85 tune. I did have to pay an additional $500 for the nitrous tune though. With tunes/tuners being as expensive as they are, I say get the most bang for your buck and get all three tunes.

So that makes complete sense. But, in some places of the country E85 is not available. I'm not even sure if one could order it by the drum but if you could there are all of the problems that would come with storage and delivery. It's just not practical for those of us on the west coast anyway.

 

[NGOT8R]

So that makes complete sense. But, in some places of the country E85 is not available. I'm not even sure if one could order it by the drum but if you could there are all of the problems that would come with storage and delivery. It's just not practical for those of us on the west coast anyway.

I ordered six 5 gal. pails of One Ethanol E85 for $394 shipped to my door on a pallet. I did this because I wanted to make sure I had the best fuel possible when tuning for E85. The gas station E85 ethanol content is often all over the place, which is fine for the Flex fuel tune, but for me, whenever I want to run my E85 Race or nitrous tune, I always test at the pump with my test kit. If It’s not 85% ethanol content then I will order more by the pail to go race. The two times I’ve been to the drag strip, I’ve gotten lucky at the gas station and found 85% ethanol content.

I understand that it may be difficult for some people to get E85, but if you can, I highly recommend ordering at least 2-3 pails to tune only, so you don’t end up leave two free tunes on the table.

 

[shogun32]

You can order 50 gallon barrel x4 on a single pallet. About 2x price at pump but it's a known high quality. Or call around to regional fuel blenders and you can arrange for delivery.

 

[Balr14]

Modern small displacement NA high performance engines are tweaked by the factory to pretty impressive levels. They don't leave much to be gained with aftermarket products. You can spend $10k to gain 20 real horsepower and that will be at high rpms. Been there, done that, won't do it again.

 

[Angrey]

Modern small displacement NA high performance engines are tweaked by the factory to pretty impressive levels. They don't leave much to be gained with aftermarket products. You can spend $10k to gain 20 real horsepower and that will be at high rpms. Been there, done that, won't do it again.

I'm not as much disagreeing with the theme of your point as much as the magnitude. You can spend way less than that and gain quite a bit.

Simply cutting out the cats will yield you that much. Cost you $100 at your local muffler shop and $400 for a canned mail in tune.

The gen3 coyote inched way closer to the voodoo and both can pickup significant power with max effort.

A typical Gen3 coyote build on E85 can go from 420 rwhp to over 500 without touching heads or cams.

Some voodoo builds have ventured into the 550 rwhp era with full on heads, cams, CJ, etc. That's about 90 rwhp over stock.

It's a much better approach in terms of HP/$ to go with a power adder, but if someone is restricted by racing class or just wants to keep the car N/A for simplicity and responsiveness, you can indeed bump the numbers noticeably with modest budget (and every hp increase you provide N/A is just that much more you receive when adding a blower/turbo, OR it means the setup has to work that much less/easier to make a stated goal).

 

[Balr14]

I'm not as much disagreeing with the theme of your point as much as the magnitude. You can spend way less than that and gain quite a bit.

Simply cutting out the cats will yield you that much. Cost you $100 at your local muffler shop and $400 for a canned mail in tune.

The gen3 coyote inched way closer to the voodoo and both can pickup significant power with max effort.

A typical Gen3 coyote build on E85 can go from 420 rwhp to over 500 without touching heads or cams.

Some voodoo builds have ventured into the 550 rwhp era with full on heads, cams, CJ, etc. That's about 90 rwhp over stock.

It's a much better approach in terms of HP/$ to go with a power adder, but if someone is restricted by racing class or just wants to keep the car N/A for simplicity and responsiveness, you can indeed bump the numbers noticeably with modest budget (and every hp increase you provide N/A is just that much more you receive when adding a blower/turbo, OR it means the setup has to work that much less/easier to make a stated goal).

Removing the cats and using E85 isn't always an option.

 

[DougS550]

I didn’t even make 500 rwhp on E85 with LTHs, X-pipe and PMAS CAI kit. I ended up at 469 rwhp/434 rwtq.

That must have sucked. I appreciate everyone's opinions and experience concerning NA car mids. Thanks

 

[CORNYOTE]

Just FYI though, you absolutely can store a car with E85 for long periods of time. I have been doing it for 3 years. My car has only seen pump gas for 8 miles. The rest of the time it's been boosted with full time pump E85 making 1000whp.

I'm gone for work 3-4 months at a time, so it sits. It's important though, to use a fuel stabilizer with some lubrication properties for storage. I use a Lucas E85 treatment. I put the treatment in and run the car for 15 mins or so to make sure all the injectors and parts get thoroughly lubricated etc. It's also important to fully fill your tank all the way. Ethanol attracts water and having a completely full tank doesn't allow for water to find its way in.

For 3 years, I've never had a single start problem, a single injector issue or any issues for that matter with the fuel system, although I run a Fore return system with dual pumps. I also have a local station that always carries E85 and that's a huge factor in making the decision to be a full time Ethanol Car.

I think regardless you'll be unhappy with a max NA car. It will always be running on the ragged edge in order to meet your power goal. For similar money you could have a centri and be very comfortable at 600whp. Plenty of people have said they will stay NA and never go boost and I would bet the majority of them always end up boosted.

 

[MCS]

Plenty of people have said they will stay NA and never go boost and I would bet the majority of them always end up boosted.

This is the situation I'm in LOL I'm just finishing up Phase 2 (the aesthetic look portion) and next spring will most likely be the power add ons. I kept debating going NA with bolt ons etc. etc. 500 rwhp was the goal also however the more I researched the more I was thinking more like 450 as an achievable goal on 93.

Then I went to the Mustang show last weekend near me and saw all the FI. It was superchargers everywhere and I was like "why not?". One of the guys was even like (paraphrasing) "Look it's pretty much like driving around normal unless you stand on it and then you will see a whole different animal" so I was like "there's the streetability that I want to preserve. I do drive this thing to the office LOL".

Next year thinking Roush entry level kit. 600rwhp is more than enough for me.

 

[Angrey]

Just FYI though, you absolutely can store a car with E85 for long periods of time. I have been doing it for 3 years. My car has only seen pump gas for 8 miles. The rest of the time it's been boosted with full time pump E85 making 1000whp.

I'm gone for work 3-4 months at a time, so it sits. It's important though, to use a fuel stabilizer with some lubrication properties for storage. I use a Lucas E85 treatment. I put the treatment in and run the car for 15 mins or so to make sure all the injectors and parts get thoroughly lubricated etc. It's also important to fully fill your tank all the way. Ethanol attracts water and having a completely full tank doesn't allow for water to find its way in.

For 3 years, I've never had a single start problem, a single injector issue or any issues for that matter with the fuel system, although I run a Fore return system with dual pumps. I also have a local station that always carries E85 and that's a huge factor in making the decision to be a full time Ethanol Car.

I think regardless you'll be unhappy with a max NA car. It will always be running on the ragged edge in order to meet your power goal. For similar money you could have a centri and be very comfortable at 600whp. Plenty of people have said they will stay NA and never go boost and I would bet the majority of them always end up boosted.

If the car is stored where the temperature swings a great deal each day, it doesn't matter how much fuel it has in it, the fuel expands and contracts and the system burps and gulps air to keep it from bursting or collapsing the fuel system. That fresh air that gets continuously cycled has moisture in it and when it arrives in the tank, the Ethanol is hydrophilic and will continue to absorb water. Fuel stabilizer will help because it surrounds the water molecules to form a complex. But make no mistake, if the fuel system is thermal cycling, it will continue to pick up a little bit of moisture every time. Gasoline does this too, just not to the same extent.

A conditioned environment greatly reduces the issue. But if you're getting nighttime lows and daytime highs that are 20F+ swings, the fuel system is cycling.

 

[Balr14]

If the car is stored where the temperature swings a great deal each day, it doesn't matter how much fuel it has in it, the fuel expands and contracts and the system burps and gulps air to keep it from bursting or collapsing the fuel system. That fresh air that gets continuously cycled has moisture in it and when it arrives in the tank, the Ethanol is hydrophilic and will continue to absorb water. Fuel stabilizer will help because it surrounds the water molecules to form a complex. But make no mistake, if the fuel system is thermal cycling, it will continue to pick up a little bit of moisture every time. Gasoline does this too, just not to the same extent.

A conditioned environment greatly reduces the issue. But if you're getting nighttime lows and daytime highs that are 20F+ swings, the fuel system is cycling.

I have a friend who ran E85 in his Mercedes and had to change it back due to our weather extremes. 40 degree variations in a day are quite common. Yesterday it was 96, last night it was 54. Tomato and pepper plants aren't real happy about, either.

 

[Angrey]

This is the situation I'm in LOL I'm just finishing up Phase 2 (the aesthetic look portion) and next spring will most likely be the power add ons. I kept debating going NA with bolt ons etc. etc. 500 rwhp was the goal also however the more I researched the more I was thinking more like 450 as an achievable goal on 93.

Then I went to the Mustang show last weekend near me and saw all the FI. It was superchargers everywhere and I was like "why not?". One of the guys was even like (paraphrasing) "Look it's pretty much like driving around normal unless you stand on it and then you will see a whole different animal" so I was like "there's the streetability that I want to preserve. I do drive this thing to the office LOL".

Next year thinking Roush entry level kit. 600rwhp is more than enough for me.

If you're looking to maintain the streetability, then turbos are the best option. You can keep them basically off and they won't begin to spool or really make steam until 3k rpm or so. Next would be a centrifugal which applies power exponentially. Adding a positive displacement blower is going to spice up your power and torque everywhere, especially on the low end.

 

[K4fxd]

The 1000cc bikes are making 200 HP per liter so I see no reason why we cannot get 100 or 125 per out of a coyote.

 

[Jaymar]

The 1000cc bikes are making 200 HP per liter so I see no reason why we cannot get 100 or 125 per out of a coyote.

I like where your head's at! Let's do that, I want more of that!

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