What brand of oil does everyone use? Motorcraft or nothin?

[Firsttexan]

And not one mention of that Purple stuff.

What gets me, is the length some forum members will go to convince the others how wrong the other guy is.

The diatribe they spout. Paragraphs and pargraphs of how wrong the other guy is.

The primal need to be recognized.

What a bunch of

You know who you are.

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[DopamineQuest]

And not one mention of that Purple stuff.

What gets me, is the length some forum members will go to convince the others how wrong the other guy is.

The diatribe they spout. Paragraphs and pargraphs of how wrong the other guy is.

The primal need to be recognized.

What a bunch of

You know who you are.

It's the modern era man, everyone thinks they're in a movie and they're the star of it.

 

[BillyJRacing]

Both Motorcraft and Amsoil are inferior to harsh use because they're designed FROM THE ONSET for cars that have catalytic converters, need to comply with EPA concerns and guidelines and are trying to simultaneously perform for a wide range of conditions.

Per my previous post. If you want to keep your warranty (yes, running a non-approved lubricant for a $30k motor will void the warranty if it takes a shit) then run what Ford recommends. It will also void your warranty if the cats take a shit, regardless of whether the oil content is germane to the issue.

The problem with these discussions is that they're largely theoretical for most people (who do not rely on the results as a matter of profit and loss or income). What an oil spec's out at brand new sitting in the bottle isn't what it settles to be shortly after use. What's useful for a race team that abuses the motor and tears it down regularly and for the person who drives the car to cars and coffee once a month and stares at it the rest of the time aren't remotely the same.

If you want to run the best oil, and you're not concerned about cost...

again.....

Pick one that has a high HTHS, has a HIGH content of ZDDP and Moly and has an acceptable NOACK. This invariably leads you to oils that start off with a base that is NOT PAO.

And like I also said. For the vast majority of people who aren't racing for a living. It also won't matter.

I won a championship with Motorcraft oil in the GT350R-C. Held up fine...

 

[BillyJRacing]

Do you think the outcome would have been any different with another Motor Oil of equal specs?

It depends. There are a lot of quality oils out there that will probably work fine for most uses, especially the street. The worst thing people can do is rev cold engines like @$&h*les at cars and coffee events. For track use, you can experiment with an expensive engine and do a bunch of oil analysis or engine teardowns to determine how well a certain oil/weight is working. Or you can go with what's proven or what people who have done engine teardowns have used/learned.

Or just run what you want and don't check anything and then report back if you blow something up... Or if you don't break anything, you can champion why your choice is better than someone else's without any objective data or proof. -At least that's how these threads typically go.

 

[Strokerswild]

Wow. Thats a mighty pricey extension cord. Although the 12 guage cord should be good for 20 amps, but it says only 15.

Pricey, but worth every penny. Buy once, cry once. They will not twist or tangle.

Now, back to the normally scheduled shit show....

 

[Angrey]

I won a championship with Motorcraft oil in the GT350R-C. Held up fine...

That's awesome. No one ever claimed it's a binary affair. It's not as if there's only one motor oil on the market that will work and the others will all result in some catastrophic failure. You could have probably won a championship using a dozen different lubricants.

If Motorcraft works for you (and others) awesome, knock it out. Unlike the Amsoil pyramid schemers, I have no appreciable dog in this fight.

I will say that there's more than enough data out there that Motorcraft 5w-50 cuts very early in the typical life cycle and settles to basically a 40 weight equivalent. Which is true for MOST of the PAO based lubricants. Whether Ford anticipated and intended for the majority of the engine's life to operate at a 40 weight, who knows. But it turns pretty soupy early. MOST of the PAO based oils use additives and tricks to get up to INITIAL spec and blend/weight. Which is why they cut and sheer so quickly. For me, using E85, I want something that holds up a little better because I'm already asking more of the oil than intended with contamination from ethanol.

If MC works for you....awesome.

 

[Tomster]

That's awesome. No one ever claimed it's a binary affair. It's not as if there's only one motor oil on the market that will work and the others will all result in some catastrophic failure. You could have probably won a championship using a dozen different lubricants.

If Motorcraft works for you (and others) awesome, knock it out. Unlike the Amsoil pyramid schemers, I have no appreciable dog in this fight.

I will say that there's more than enough data out there that Motorcraft 5w-50 cuts very early in the typical life cycle and settles to basically a 40 weight equivalent. Which is true for MOST of the PAO based lubricants. Whether Ford anticipated and intended for the majority of the engine's life to operate at a 40 weight, who knows. But it turns pretty soupy early. MOST of the PAO based oils use additives and tricks to get up to INITIAL spec and blend/weight. Which is why they cut and sheer so quickly. For me, using E85, I want something that holds up a little better because I'm already asking more of the oil than intended with contamination from ethanol.

If MC works for you....awesome.

I have data that says otherwise. Care to share some of your extensive data showing your position?

So now people are going to argue with Billy, lol

 

[Angrey]

I have data that says otherwise. Care to share some of your extensive data showing your position?

So now people are going to argue with Billy, lol

Who's arguing? This is like saying "what's the best hotel to stay at?" It's not like one hotel works and the rest are going to end up giving you bed bugs and a mid stay fire to deal with.

If something works for you and yours, great. This is why it's best not even to discuss it. Guys get so ass hurt that any discussion is an "argument."

You can head over to Bobistheoilguy forums and see all these typical debates with much more technical discussions and data, but it's not even controversial anymore that most big spread blends (i.e. 5-50) from primarily PAO base stock cut and sheer fairly quickly and settle in as a significantly lower weight than what's labeled on the bottle.

Again, maybe Ford designed the bearings and the lubrication needs to account for and anticipate and PREFER that.

My point is that if you run E85 with ANY oil, it's going to contaminate and cut the oil further than it's intended 0 and 100 viscosity and performance. Which is why I tend toward something that either starts a little higher or is more resistant to cutting in the first place.

And like I've written numerous times now, will it make a difference either way? Probably not. If I weigh my bearings initially and after 50k miles of running one vs the other, am I REALLY going to notice a couple of thousands of material loss difference? Probably not. I don't plan on running this motor to 300k miles like a taxi cab.

At the end of the day, these discussions are largely akin to "Who's the greatest NBA player of all time?" We could have meaningful debates all day long, but it's not a binary "well if that guy is the greatest, then the other contenders are just zero" affair. But that's how people tend to treat these discussions.

 

[IPOGT]

I'm not your brother.

You never know.

 

[Andy13186]

Most important thing is to check your oil level every 500 miles and keep it full. I do like mixing 0w40 with 5w50 in the winter too though, makes cold starts a little easier on the motor.

 

[Tomster]

Who's arguing? This is like saying "what's the best hotel to stay at?" It's not like one hotel works and the rest are going to end up giving you bed bugs and a mid stay fire to deal with.

If something works for you and yours, great. This is why it's best not even to discuss it. Guys get so ass hurt that any discussion is an "argument."

You can head over to Bobistheoilguy forums and see all these typical debates with much more technical discussions and data, but it's not even controversial anymore that most big spread blends (i.e. 5-50) from primarily PAO base stock cut and sheer fairly quickly and settle in as a significantly lower weight than what's labeled on the bottle.

Again, maybe Ford designed the bearings and the lubrication needs to account for and anticipate and PREFER that.

My point is that if you run E85 with ANY oil, it's going to contaminate and cut the oil further than it's intended 0 and 100 viscosity and performance. Which is why I tend toward something that either starts a little higher or is more resistant to cutting in the first place.

And like I've written numerous times now, will it make a difference either way? Probably not. If I weigh my bearings initially and after 50k miles of running one vs the other, am I REALLY going to notice a couple of thousands of material loss difference? Probably not. I don't plan on running this motor to 300k miles like a taxi cab.

At the end of the day, these discussions are largely akin to "Who's the greatest NBA player of all time?" We could have meaningful debates all day long, but it's not a binary "well if that guy is the greatest, then the other contenders are just zero" affair. But that's how people tend to treat these discussions.

I agree with the fact that most things in life is not a one size fits all. My point all along pertained to the majority of GT500 owners in that you have to use an approved oil to maintain your warranty. I was even fair to state that Amsoil had an oil that met spec and was approved by Ford. As long as you are using an oil that meets spec then your warranty will remain intact. If someone doesn't care about that or doesn't even have a warranty to begin with, I also said that go ahead and use whatever you want.

Where I don't agree with you is that you say motorcraft 5w50 cuts rather rapidly down to a 5w40. Time after time of running flat out at Daytona, event after event, analysis after analysis, the oil is a consistent 5W50. This is why I ask for your data. I don't know if this is a myth or what, but I have read the same thing on other oil debates, yet nobody can pony up the evidence. The GT500 is not a taxicab. It is a purpose built performance vehicle built for the track. Under those conditions, I have never seen my oil sheer as some state. The attached figures are 1000 miles of foot on the floor flat out running, 4 times a day, for 3 days at Daytona. These results are typical based upon the 500 and the 350s I have ran there.

I don't care what anyone uses in their engine. As long as they understand the consequences of using something that isn't approved, then who cares?

There is a similar thread going on pertaining to using aftermarket oil filters. One guy has great sucess with the K&N under extreme track conditions. Others have reported collapsed OEM filters. I don't care who uses what, but there are consequences should your engine grenade itself and they find an aftermarket filter in there. My position is use what you want, just understand the consequences.

A question about oil was asked in the GT500 section. A guy who has a 5 liter coyote with a whipple bolted on it pipes in and based upon information from some youtube channel that tests everything from crescent wrenches, to drill bits, to furnace filters (you get my drift), it was stated that Amsoil is best. Sorry, but I called bullshit on that one only because of the source of the information. I further stated that Amsoil was an approved oil and to use whatever oil they choose, but if a person uses a non specified oil, that the warranty would be voided.

These oil debates are always a shit show. Very early on I called it and I do believe I stated to use whatever anyone wants. Where I took exception is when someone came along without any real data based upon a different engine with no warranty quoting farmer joe from a youtube channel.

 

[Tomster]

Most important thing is to check your oil level every 500 miles and keep it full. I do like mixing 0w40 with 5w50 in the winter too though, makes cold starts a little easier on the motor.

more great advice.....

 

[Angrey]

I agree with the fact that most things in life is not a one size fits all. My point all along pertained to the majority of GT500 owners in that you have to use an approved oil to maintain your warranty. I was even fair to state that Amsoil had an oil that met spec and was approved by Ford. As long as you are using an oil that meets spec then your warranty will remain intact. If someone doesn't care about that or doesn't even have a warranty to begin with, I also said that go ahead and use whatever you want.

Where I don't agree with you is that you say motorcraft 5w50 cuts rather rapidly down to a 5w40. Time after time of running flat out at Daytona, event after event, analysis after analysis, the oil is a consistent 5W50. This is why I ask for your data. I don't know if this is a myth or what, but I have read the same thing on other oil debates, yet nobody can pony up the evidence. The GT500 is not a taxicab. It is a purpose built performance vehicle built for the track. Under those conditions, I have never seen my oil sheer as some state. The attached figures are 1000 miles of foot on the floor flat out running, 4 times a day, for 3 days at Daytona. These results are typical based upon the 500 and the 350s I have ran there.

I don't care what anyone uses in their engine. As long as they understand the consequences of using something that isn't approved, then who cares?

There is a similar thread going on pertaining to using aftermarket oil filters. One guy has great sucess with the K&N under extreme track conditions. Others have reported collapsed OEM filters. I don't care who uses what, but there are consequences should your engine grenade itself and they find an aftermarket filter in there. My position is use what you want, just understand the consequences.

A question about oil was asked in the GT500 section. A guy who has a 5 liter coyote with a whipple bolted on it pipes in and based upon information from some youtube channel that tests everything from crescent wrenches, to drill bits, to furnace filters (you get my drift), it was stated that Amsoil is best. Sorry, but I called bullshit on that one only because of the source of the information. I further stated that Amsoil was an approved oil and to use whatever oil they choose, but if a person uses a non specified oil, that the warranty would be voided.

These oil debates are always a shit show. Very early on I called it and I do believe I stated to use whatever anyone wants. Where I took exception is when someone came along without any real data based upon a different engine with no warranty quoting farmer joe from a youtube channel.

So take that OA and go look at the definitions of what cSt should be for a 5w-50 that just comes out of the bottle and what it typically is for a straight 40w grade lubricant.

"Typical" for a 5w-50 meaning, it's no thinner or thicker than a typical 5w-50 blend, but it's not the 21 motorcraft advertises as brand new in the bottle.

Product Data Sheet 5W50 Full Synthetic.pdf (fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.com)
VISCOSITY CLASSIFICATIONS (premiumgrades.com)

Not sure if you're reading the OA correctly, what they're saying by typical is, it's not fairing any better or worse than typical 5w-50. It's not a characterization of how all those "typical" lubricants are holding up. It's cut from the initial rated value of 21, which isn't trivial.

Admittedly, (despite the frustration of typical Amsoil enthusiasts) most 5w-50 PAO based oils do this.

Ana again, it's unclear (from anything I can find) whether Ford intended for the bearings to be optimally lubricated at 14-15 cSt or at the initial 21 the oil has on a fresh change.

 

[Tomster]

So take that OA and go look at the definitions of what cSt should be for a 5w-50 that just comes out of the bottle and what it typically is for a straight 40w grade lubricant.

"Typical" for a 5w-50 meaning, it's no thinner or thicker than a typical 5w-50 blend, but it's not the 21 motorcraft advertises as brand new in the bottle.

Product Data Sheet 5W50 Full Synthetic.pdf (fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.com)
VISCOSITY CLASSIFICATIONS (premiumgrades.com)

Not sure if you're reading the OA correctly, what they're saying by typical is, it's not fairing any better or worse than typical 5w-50. It's not a characterization of how all those "typical" lubricants are holding up. It's cut from the initial rated value of 21, which isn't trivial.

Admittedly, (despite the frustration of typical Amsoil enthusiasts) most 5w-50 PAO based oils do this.

Ana again, it's unclear (from anything I can find) whether Ford intended for the bearings to be optimally lubricated at 14-15 cSt or at the initial 21 the oil has on a fresh change.

So then we send off a bottle of 5W50 off for oil analysis? Look at my 500 mile analysis. That was break in oil that saw 500 miles of old lady break in driving. That value looks very close to that of my track oil. I'll reach out to blackstone to see if they have any unused motorcraft benchmark numbers.

Edited to add:
I emailed Blackstone to see what they have to say.

 

[Andy13186]

TBH that doesnt look like a super good report especially considering the low mileage on the oil. The viscosity difference between the first and 2nd test is pretty significant if thats actually the same oil. The copper is pretty high in both.. My amsoil maintained significant higher velocity with more mileage and after I added 300 hp to my car and drove it hard for 2000 miles..

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