VelossaTech BIG MOUTH Water Intrusion Update

Discussion in 'I4 2.3L EcoBoost Engine / Mods: Bolt-ons, Exhaust,' started by TheLion, Oct 20, 2016.

  1. TheLion

    TheLion Well-Known Member

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    I've seen some people report issues with water intrusion into the charge system while driving in the rain after opening up their front grille. I don't think any that I saw actually were using the Velossatech BIG MOUTH ram air duct.

    I am using the BIG MOUTH with a GT grille I painstakingly de-blanked every single honey comb from (I mean EVERY ONE, even the little corner ones). Took me about 6 hours and two stabbed fingers to complete, but it looks like a factory piece even up close. For reference I used a rotary tool and routing bit to get out the majority of it, but an exacto knife to hone the edges down for a smooth factory molded appearance.

    At any rate, it was raining out fairly heavily this morning on my commute to work, about 23 miles, half highway, half city. There was a fairly significant amount of water vaporization on the highway due to all the standing water, traffic and constant rain (still raining out pretty good even as I type this).

    I did not have a single issue this morning on my way to work with the stang. I was very curious if the OE paper filter was soaked or damp so I pulled it out in the parking lot before going in (in the rain)...to my amazement it was bone dry!

    It would appear that now having the high pressure zone in the air box itself causes the water to rapidly condense at highway speeds (where you get all the vaporization in heavy rain) as it compresses and stalls in the high pressure zone before entering the intake. There was certainly plenty of water droplets in the bottom of the air box, but no pooling as any significant amount drained out the factory drain hole.

    So now that I have confidence water is not an issue, the only issue I've encountered with the BIG MOUTH is debris with enough mass to have gotten sucked up into the Green Filter when I was using that (aka sand sized particles, a lot of them and bugs). Basically any particles that can fit through the grille that have some mass.

    I also noticed the OE paper filter was not holding any large debris, or any debris I could see. It looked clean as a whistle (I've had it in for about the last 1,000 miles now). There were debris starting to adhere to the green filter after just the first 1k miles as I inspected it after the first 1k as well to see how quickly it was getting dirty (a suspicion I had after installing the BIG MOUTH).

    If your running a street car and want to maintain a clean intake system without constant maintenance the BIG MOUTH with the OE paper filter or an AEM Dry Flow is an excellent combination. You could also use the Ford Performance CAI with the big mouth.

    Yes the Ford Performance CAI has an aspiration cutout on the drivers side where the fender well is, however at speed there is still a very high volume of cool air going into the air box, so the BIG MOUTH is still beneficial since the Ford Performance CAI is a sealed air box (seals against hood) and relys heavily upon the intake tract for it's air supply. The aspiration cutout on the drivers side is for low speed flow. You also get the benefit of higher flow rate of the conical paper filter over the OE panel filter and it's increased dust capacity as well. I may upgrade the intake next year if people have positive reports on it's overall performance.
     
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  2. OP
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    TheLion

    TheLion Well-Known Member

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    My bad, I looked at a close up and what I thought was an aspiration port is actually a cutout for it to fit up against the frame. Well in that case the BIG mouth is even more beneficial to be used with the Ford M-9603-M23 CAI!
     
  3. BoostedCanadianPoney

    BoostedCanadianPoney Well-Known Member

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    I am currently running a green filter on the stock box, I did my gt grill swap and grill delete then installed a custom grill. I am waiting for my big mouth to arrive in the mail. I hope I wont have rain water issues or any other unwanted things entering the airbox. That was my only fear as while the big mouth will draw a little more air this may also draw water and other stuff. I am glad to hear you didnt have any issues
     
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    TheLion

    TheLion Well-Known Member

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    Given that the high pressure zone is in the air-box, the water tends to condense due to the increasing of air density and the vaporized water. The OE filter will resist larger droplets of water more easily than the green filter will, however I didn't notice any moisture at all on my OE paper filter.

    I don't think you should have any issues with the green filter, just take it out and smack it on your work bench every 5k miles or so initially, with the BIG MOUTH it will get dirty very quickly, at least mine did and for the minuscule gains and poorer filtration I didn't think it worth the constant hassle. I still have my green filter and keep it for track days but use the OE paper for daily driving.
     
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  5. ElAviator72

    ElAviator72 Well-Known Member

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    Add that to a list of things not to do to a car in the Pacific NW, we're having an extra soggy fall right now with heavy cloud bursts/downpours (for about the last week!) :thumbsup: This is the first I've heard about people having problems with water working its way into the intake system, BTW...either modded or not.
     
  6. 2016Mustang

    2016Mustang Well-Known Member

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    I didn't even know what the velossatech big mouth was until I just googled it . Seems like an interesting piece. Would love to hear from any of the tuners on here to see if it's a good performance mod and if it works .
     
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    TheLion

    TheLion Well-Known Member

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    Tune+ helped work with Velossatech to develop it (at least with testing). The hard part about quantifying any benefits are that you can't really do it on a dyno without a high flow of air directed right at the intake.

    Ram air intakes are not new, they've been around for eons and plenty of 90's and early 2000's cars from GM and Pontiac had them.

    BTW, had heavy rain again today and even more water on the roads, checked the filter again and still dry as a bone. No water, or at least no abnormal amount of water appears to be even passing to the filter, seems to always collect and condense at the bottom of the air box (which is probably the reason for the grid / ridges as well). It creates a stall point for the air and allows moisture to condense.

    If you run a BIG MOUTH and the stock air box (with any filter, OE paper, oiled cotton or AEM dry) with a de-banked GT grille or other open grille I would not expect any issues in heavy rain or water.
     
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  8. tw557

    tw557 Well-Known Member

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    I sure like the look of this big mouth but really can't imagine it adds any power to a turbo car and maybe even hurts airflow at high speed. Unless it does lower intake charge temp quicker or more then the stock setup. I don't like how it has such a large "funnel" opening up front then narrowing down to enter the inlet tract. This is not a good way to get more air into the airbox. The best design is a inlet opening with no taper. I learned a lot about this stuff in fluid flow classes and back in the day roadracing motorcycles and creating ram air setups. Trying to flow fluid thru a funnel fast does not work well. And since our turbo makes more pressure then the PCM wants at any given time I'm not sure if even if we could pressurize the airbox that it would help.
     
  9. TEXAS HEAT

    TEXAS HEAT Well-Known Member

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    #9 TEXAS HEAT, Oct 21, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2016
    By narrowing the funnel you increase air velocity which helps to pressurize the airbox. There are limitations though, if the air becomes stagnant it can heat up and ultimately hurt airflow, but it would be at very high speeds and no throttle, not something you would encounter routinely. Fluid flow and airflow do not behave in the same manner.

    Pressurizing the airbox does have a net positive effect of allowing the turbocharger to stay in the proper area of the compressor map, which reduces pumping losses and increases VE. The decreased pressure drop will allow the turbocharger to produce the same amount of airflow with less pressure and a lower turbocharger speed, and therefore will create the same power on less boost. If you then again increase pressure, you will see an increase in power and keep the compressor operating cooler and more efficiently. It's a win-win!
     
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  10. tw557

    tw557 Well-Known Member

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    I do see that the less the difference in pressure will help make the turbos job easier but I don't quite understand that the motor will make the same power with less boost. Now if the motor such as the head, cams, valves and such had better VE, less boost would be needed for the same HP. But boost levels at the Throttle body are really what matter and any way I see it, less boost will be less power with the same given motor. But in a normally aspirated motor, anything to free up the VE from the beginning to the end is helpful.
     
  11. lizardrko

    lizardrko Well-Known Member

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    Not to be that guy and revive an old thread, but has anyone who has this noticed any gains? Other than the theoretical gains it may or may not provide, what are others' thoughts on it? Would it be paired good with the mishimoto intake?
     
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