Upgrading Head Gasket & Studs Prior to Bigger Turbo?

[Scootsmcgreggor]

Thanks for the advice guys.

Not that I'm looking for an excuse to tie up a weekend doing this job, but I wonder why the suggestions not to do it for fear of introducing a problem? As long as you have an idea what you're doing and make sure you re-time it properly a job like this is more or less big kid Legos. What would the failure mechanisms be that some of you are worried about? funny enough my biggest fear would be getting a good seal on the front cover, I think that's the trickiest part about this job.

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[Turbong]

Anything can be done, anything can be considered easy but mathematically the more things you change the bigger the chance of something going wrong whether by your mistake or unintended consequences for introducing something new. This thread proved that point I think you missed it, the man basically thought he was adding a "better" revised HG that is actually just the wrong HG and there's a lot other examples too long to list.

 

[StealthStang]

Thanks for the advice guys.

Not that I'm looking for an excuse to tie up a weekend doing this job, but I wonder why the suggestions not to do it for fear of introducing a problem? As long as you have an idea what you're doing and make sure you re-time it properly a job like this is more or less big kid Legos. What would the failure mechanisms be that some of you are worried about? funny enough my biggest fear would be getting a good seal on the front cover, I think that's the trickiest part about this job.

Youre talking about changing the head gasket...on a high pressure turbo engine, and your biggest concern is getting a good seal on the timing chain cover ?!

When these gaskets are done at the factory, they are done at precise and even pressure application, consistent curing times, exposure to air and a bunch of other things. All chosen to maximise the strength and reliability of the gasket, it has to last at least 5 years to survive the global warranty. These factories are extremely precise, and even they sometimes screw things up. Doing it yourself the odds are likely worse.

Everybody is quick to talk about "bad batches" of things from the factories, but they have far more "good batches" that nobody talks about because nothing goes wrong with it.

Your car has already survived quite a few hard power and heat cycles thus far, so the gasket is likely perfectly fine and likely to survive well past it expected life if you keep it below 400HP, if it were marginal it would have failed by now.

By changing it "preventatively" you actually are bringing back the chance of it failing early because you are basically still running within the power this engine is designed for yet introducing potential sealing weakpoints. If you going for power way past the design parameters, or if the car is old and has like 100K+ miles on it then yeah sure go for it, but that isnt the case here.

 

[ice445]

Youre talking about changing the head gasket...on a high pressure turbo engine, and your biggest concern is getting a good seal on the timing chain cover ?!

When these gaskets are done at the factory, they are done at precise and even pressure application, consistent curing times, exposure to air and a bunch of other things. All chosen to maximise the strength and reliability of the gasket, it has to last at least 5 years to survive the global warranty. These factories are extremely precise, and even they sometimes screw things up. Doing it yourself the odds are likely worse.

Everybody is quick to talk about "bad batches" of things from the factories, but they have far more "good batches" that nobody talks about because nothing goes wrong with it.

Your car has already survived quite a few hard power and heat cycles thus far, so the gasket is likely perfectly fine and likely to survive well past it expected life if you keep it below 400HP, if it were marginal it would have failed by now.

By changing it "preventatively" you actually are bringing back the chance of it failing early because you are basically still running within the power this engine is designed for yet introducing potential sealing weakpoints. If you going for power way past the design parameters, or if the car is old and has like 100K+ miles on it then yeah sure go for it, but that isnt the case here.

It's not THAT serious, but a head gasket job isn't an easy one. There are lots of little ways you can screw yourself if you don't have a lot of experience.

 

[Turbong]

It's not THAT serious, but a head gasket job isn't an easy one. There are lots of little ways you can screw yourself if you don't have a lot of experience.

Damn I remember when I did a valve cover gasket on my GF Civic, I thought that was easy it still ended up leaking even following torque/bolt pattern so yea I would consider HG job pretty serious. There is a difference between having things done scientifically accurate and just eye balling stuff, I always prefer the latter.

 

[ice445]

Damn I remember when I did a valve cover gasket on my GF Civic, I thought that was easy it still ended up leaking even following torque/bolt pattern so yea I would consider HG job pretty serious. There is a difference between having things done scientifically accurate and just eye balling stuff, I always prefer the latter.

I did one on my V6 Taurus, its a pain and requires a lot of special tools and procedure. Not a job for a novice especially on a dual overhead cam setup lol

 

[Scootsmcgreggor]

Youre talking about changing the head gasket...on a high pressure turbo engine, and your biggest concern is getting a good seal on the timing chain cover ?!

Yup. If you can get data for any for dealership you’ll see that they have to reseal probably 100x as many front covers and oil pans as head gaskets so yeah it’s def one of the trickier parts of the job.

Torquing a head is no more difficult than doing so for wheels. Follow the correct pattern at the right values and it’s torqued. It’s not magic.

Timing can be difficult but with the lock out kits for TDC it looks way easier than sighting it as is the case with older engine designs.

Anyways not trying to argue. If you think you’d F it up then def not a job to undertake and I’m not here to convince you otherwise.

 

[ice445]

Yup. If you can get data for any for dealership you’ll see that they have to reseal probably 100x as many front covers and oil pans as head gaskets so yeah it’s def one of the trickier parts of the job.

Torquing a head is no more difficult than doing so for wheels. Follow the correct pattern at the right values and it’s torqued. It’s not magic.

Timing can be difficult but with the lock out kits for TDC it looks way easier than sighting it as is the case with older engine designs.

Anyways not trying to argue. If you think you’d F it up then def not a job to undertake and I’m not here to convince you otherwise.

The process is simple, sure. But it's the little things that can get you in trouble. Like cleaning the mating surfaces. Aluminum is delicate and if you use a scotch Brite pad on a die grinder its not hard to destroy the surface.

But overall I agree with you, im not here to tell anyone to do or not to do it. But some proper research or expert help goes a long way.

 

[StealthStang]

Yup. If you can get data for any for dealership you’ll see that they have to reseal probably 100x as many front covers and oil pans as head gaskets so yeah it’s def one of the trickier parts of the job.

The reason the dealership does so many timing chain covers is not because its hard, its because the pre facelift Mustangs had a faulty process for installing the timing chain cover at the factory, which causes oil leaks to happen through and around the bolt holes.

You can have a timing chain cover leak and other than a bit of a mess its not going to be a major issue.

Incorrectly torquing your head bolts, not cleaning the surfaces properly, hell you can even damage the head imperceptibly to yourself when removing it. All of these things will cause the gasket to fail a lot sooner than the factory and possibly at lower power levels too.

Sure if its something you do often (and Im not talking about on ancient 30 year old iron boat anchor engines) then its not a massive issue but even then why would you change it when its perfectly fine and within its operating limits ?

If youre building up the engine, then do the gasket, otherwise youre just wasting time and increasing risk of something going wrong but replacing a gasket on a stock motor thats running around stock power levels.
You could change the head gasket to handle 400HP better and end up just blowing out the block at cylinder 3-4 anyway which happens at stock'ish power levels to. So i see no point of just changing out the gasket.

 

[DavidEcobeast]

Pretty sure that's not true. The Focus RS engine is mounted transverse compared to the Mustang which is longitudinal. In every single instance I can think of where the same engine has different mounting directions, the head gasket ends up being different as a result because of different coolant flow.

They use the same head gasket now. Cross reference the part numbers.

 

[DavidEcobeast]

Happy to report the engine is back up and running! Nice smooth idle, no more smoke or check engine lights. I am very pleased with myself I must say. Still worried every time I start it up of course. Took a few weekends taking my time and cleaning everything. I would say that this should add value ;)

For those inquiring, I used the following...

1. Focus RS/Mustang head gasket
2. CA 625+ headstuds
3. Factory gasket maker and sealants
4. Factory service manual and Service manual tools.
5. ARP bottom tap for head bolt bosses.

I reused pretty much everything else timing chain and component. I did not want to sink a small fortune into the engine in case something major goes wrong. I would also like to save for a built block. Just going to drive it and enjoy it.

View attachment 539648

 

[Scootsmcgreggor]

Congrats! I presume you inspected all coolant passages to make sure they match up with the headgasket?

 

[DavidEcobeast]

80 miles on it 181-186* coolant temps

 

[DavidEcobeast]

Thanks for the advice guys.

Not that I'm looking for an excuse to tie up a weekend doing this job, but I wonder why the suggestions not to do it for fear of introducing a problem? As long as you have an idea what you're doing and make sure you re-time it properly a job like this is more or less big kid Legos. What would the failure mechanisms be that some of you are worried about? funny enough my biggest fear would be getting a good seal on the front cover, I think that's the trickiest part about this job.

Ford Motorcraft TA-30 gasket maker applied as shown in the manual. Happy to report no leaks, with proper torque and sequence.
Handy tip. I went around the edges with a q tip to even out the gasket maker after this pic. No, no.... cotton material trapped within

 

[StealthStang]

Im very confused here.

You can clearly see that the gasket you installed is missing the central coolant line holes for between the cylinder walls.

Theres only one hole on the RS gaskets there, the Mustang has two.

This doesnt seem like a good idea AT ALL, unless somebody can explain to me how its possible this is going to work.

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