Upgrade or switch cars? (DD, occasional track)

['19Bullitt.32]

Also, it's not just track time. I would like what I drive to handle better all of the time.

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[Jstang23]

Also, it's not just track time. I would like what I drive to handle better all of the time.

If you want the best handling car, then I'd suggest buying a dedicated track car. Its honestly not possible to have the best handling car and be comfortable driving to work.

BUT, you can absolutely build your car to handle good enough. Then, work on driver mod!!! I took my 2016 v6 mustang around a track 3 times and never lost to a GT mustang (HPDE, so not a lot of quality drivers). The reason I beat the GTs is most people don't understand how to drive them correctly. The mustang is a very good starting point in terms of the car and with a few mods and a lot of learning you can beat many of the cars out on the track.

A lot of people were shocked that my 16 v6 beat their 450+ hp v8. But that's the reality of racing and tracking. A great driver in a slow car will always beat a bad driver in a fast car. Mountain roads and autocross are good starting points to learn your car but until you get seat time on an actual track you aren't really developing yourself as a driver.

My advice, keep the mustang, replace the sway bars, and get the rear IRS lockout kit. Get quality track pads, rotors and brake fluid. Get a nice set of sticky tires. You'll then have a very capable car that you can do some pretty amazing things with if you take the time to develop yourself first! And after the track day is done you'll swap out the pads and rotors to daily ones and then drive to work in a pretty comfy environment!

Cheers and have fun!

 

[bnightstar]

Also, it's not just track time. I would like what I drive to handle better all of the time.

The Mustang handling without mods and with mods if done correctly is night and day difference both on track and on the street however the street driving is mostly just suffering until you get to the track. Because it's not legal or it's dangerous to drive as fast as that thing can go with mods on the street.

 

[tosha]

I wonder if this issue was resolved for the '23 model or earlier?

No idea to be honest . I'm not very interested in supras at this point, my mustang is simply a faster car now (can't say the same about myself though) and I like styling of it a lot more.

Does all of them have Porsche as manufacture ?

Mostly, I'd put AMG GTR in the same list. Awesome car on track, not good as GT car for anything more than couple hours of cruising.

 

[bnightstar]

No idea to be honest . I'm not very interested in supras at this point, my mustang is simply a faster car now and I like styling of it a lot more.

Mostly, I'd put AMG GTR in the same list. Awesome car on track, not good as GT car for anything more than couple hours of cruising.

Yesterday I guy with an AMG GTS was trying to race me on the street and give me a thumbs up. I don't race on the street though. But still GTR is on my list as well amazing car and GTS is almost there performance wise but much cheaper.

 

[tosha]

Yesterday I guy with an AMG GTS was trying to race me on the street and give me a thumbs up. I don't race on the street though. But still GTR is on my list as well amazing car and GTS is almost there performance wise but much cheaper.

Talking from first hand experience, I'd pick that one over a GT3. That car is mental

 

[Howitzer]

Also, it's not just track time. I would like what I drive to handle better all of the time.

Since i saw you had magneride...
just get the "ford performance magneride handling pack", some 10" wheels and run 275 or 285 square and call it a day. Add steeda camber plates if you want adjustable front camber for little to no NVH since they re-use the stock rubber top mount. Simple, effective, doesn't cost too much. You'll have better handling everywhere and shouldn't notice much(if any) added harshness (not familiar with those springs though).

No matter what car you go with, there will be compromises somewhere. In the suspension...engine...cooling...the interior/space...your wallet.

Personally...I got a base car 8 years ago specifically to mod to however I wanted. And I chose the mustang as it was big enough to take comfortable trips in, it came with a great engine, aftermarket support galore and I simply found a great deal for the car. But, the suspension was too soft, it had too much roll in corners, it wasn't confidence inspiring and it couldn't get any traction. Changing over to different dampers, springs and wider wheels/tires alone completely changed everything. And now I'm where I am because I kept wanting to improve the car and accomplish different things with it and the shared knowledge about these cars are so vast and people have a real passion for it.

Now...you starting with a bullet is a bit different. You also have another 100+ pounds from the default premium package. And if I was going to spend bullet money at the time, I doubt I would have chosen a mustang at all, but who knows. Only you can decide what you really want to do. I'm just here to say the S550 platform (regardless of trim) is very capable.

 

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

I’m writing on my phone so I can’t get too detailed. Disclaimer that I don’t track my cars, but drive spiritedly on mountain back roads. I had a 2018 GT premium PP1 w/A10 and MagneRide; so essentially the same as a Bullitt. I now have a ‘21 ZL1 and a ‘22 Supra 3.0.
Quick comparison: the GT felt clumsy and tall and bouncy (bad damping) compared to the ZL1. The ZL1 is smooth and stable and has much better steering, damping, and trans tuning (not comparing power here). The GT had poor steering comparatively. The Supra is very responsive, nimble, lively, and feels light compared to the other two. It turns in more immediately than the ZL1. But it isn’t as smooth of a driving experience - brakes and steering are more sensitive. It is fun on the twisties though. The ZL1 feels very planted and fast on back roads. SS 1LE will be similar to the ZL1 but ~150 lbs lighter and of course less power. The Supra and ZL1 have eLSDs, a nice upgrade over the Torsen in the Mustang.

Supra does get its share of attention, so does the ZL1. My Mustang got a little here and there but not near the level of the other two (with the Supra getting the most).

 

['19Bullitt.32]

I’m writing on my phone so I can’t get too detailed. Disclaimer that I don’t track my cars, but drive spiritedly on mountain back roads. I had a 2018 GT premium PP1 w/A10 and MagneRide; so essentially the same as a Bullitt. I now have a ‘21 ZL1 and a ‘22 Supra 3.0.
Quick comparison: the GT felt clumsy and tall and bouncy (bad damping) compared to the ZL1. The ZL1 is smooth and stable and has much better steering, damping, and trans tuning (not comparing power here). The GT had poor steering comparatively. The Supra is very responsive, nimble, lively, and feels light compared to the other two. It turns in more immediately than the ZL1. But it isn’t as smooth of a driving experience - brakes and steering are more sensitive. It is fun on the twisties though. The ZL1 feels very planted and fast on back roads. SS 1LE will be similar to the ZL1 but ~150 lbs lighter and of course less power. The Supra and ZL1 have eLSDs, a nice upgrade over the Torsen in the Mustang.

Supra does get its share of attention, so does the ZL1. My Mustang got a little here and there but not near the level of the other two (with the Supra getting the most).

Thanks for sharing.

I love the feeling of "responsive" and "lively"! Even the 2nd Gen Genesis Coupe I had was like that. By the time my brain decided to turn the steering wheel the car was already changing directions.

I really miss that feeling. This Mustang is like moving a rudder on a boat...I had a Scat Pack Challenger and it was even worse, more like a Captain telling the Helmsman to change course, who calls it down to the steering room NCO, who tells a guy to move the rudder, then the ship turns later...

Okay , I'm kidding it wasn't that bad.

A relative has a Veloster R-Spec and it's like my former GC. Not twitchy, but by the time you desire to turn, the car is already doing it. A real connection.

 

[tosha]

A relative has a Veloster R-Spec and it's like my former GC. Not twitchy, but by the time you desire to turn, the car is already doing it. A real connection

Ok, I also have Elantra N as my daily for the last several months, and that thing can be easily descibed as "very responsive, nimble, lively, and feels light". Which is to be expected, because it's much lighter and has very fast steering rack. Yes, steering rack on GT is terrible from that perspective, but that doesn't mean a thing on a track. On a street, this N or probably any other hot hatch is a lot more fun to toss around.

 

[NightmareMoon]

Also, it's not just track time. I would like what I drive to handle better all of the time.

My Tacoma handles everything I ask from it when commuting, getting groceries, or carving highway exits at 0.7 Gs. Its just as fast as the M2s and Porsches I pass on the highway… well until we start getting into doing things that would get you arrested.

(Ok, welll the emergency braking could be better, but in its defense its got K02s on it)

if you can’t drive a slow car fast, a faster car won’t help you (and a GT mustang is not even a ‘slow’ car).

put your money into instruction and seat time. You can go buy that faster car, but the track rats in miatas will still run you down and gobble you up. You can own the fast car, but you still have to find someone who knows how drive it in order to extract that performance.

in other words - its the indian, not the arrow. All the Motorweeks and Car and Driver magazines and Top Gears a s YouTube stars make it sound like all you need to do is own that faster machine, but its far from that. Good drivers in slower cars will /wreck/inexperienced drivers in faster cars. I chased down a Porsche GT3 on Hoosier A7s once in my GT mustang (well until I boiled the brakes). Thats not supposed to happen, and thats not even unusual for HPDE track days

watching a guy in a GT350R get goaded by his girlfriend into trying to out lap a “slower” GT350 driver who actually had skills, and then nearly wreck his R into a concrete wall was kinda fun. He was so embarassed/scared he up and quit the track day right there. Don’t be the guy in the R who‘s chasing his ego and thinking its all about the car, or that it actually matters at all at an HPDE event if you’re faster than X car/driver or slower. It doesnt matter! Invest in your own growth as a driver. Be slow for a while. Drive a lesser car with body roll and narrow tires. You’ll learn a lot faster. People always want to buy parts. Buy skill instead, it lasts longer and its a lot more rewarding.

ok I’m going to go back to playing with the $$$$ carbon fiber wing I just bought, which I don’t need, but looks amazing. ;)

 

[tosha]

My Tacoma handles everything I ask from it when commuting, getting groceries, or carving highway exits at 0.7 Gs. Its just as fast as the M2s and Porsches I pass on the highway… well until we start getting into doing things that would get you arrested.

(Ok, welll the emergency braking could be better, but in its defense its got K02s on it)

if you can’t drive a slow car fast, a faster car won’t help you (and a GT mustang is not even a ‘slow’ car).

put your money into instruction and seat time. You can go buy that faster car, but the track rats in miatas will still run you down and gobble you up. You can own the fast car, but you still have to find someone who knows how drive it in order to extract that performance.

in other words - its the indian, not the arrow. All the Motorweeks and Car and Driver magazines and Top Gears a s YouTube stars make it sound like all you need to do is own that faster machine, but its far from that. Good drivers in slower cars will /wreck/inexperienced drivers in faster cars. I chased down a Porsche GT3 on Hoosier A7s once in my GT mustang (well until I boiled the brakes). Thats not supposed to happen, and thats not even unusual for HPDE track days

watching a guy in a GT350R get goaded by his girlfriend into trying to out lap a “slower” GT350 driver who actually had skills, and then nearly wreck his R into a concrete wall was kinda fun. He was so embarassed/scared he up and quit the track day right there. Don’t be the guy in the R who‘s chasing his ego and thinking its all about the car, or that it actually matters at all at an HPDE event if you’re faster than X car/driver or slower. It doesnt matter! Invest in your own growth as a driver. Be slow for a while. Drive a lesser car with body roll and narrow tires. You’ll learn a lot faster. People always want to buy parts. Buy skill instead, it lasts longer and its a lot more rewarding.

ok I’m going to go back to playing with the $$$$ carbon fiber wing I just bought, which I don’t need, but looks amazing. ;)

This is gold, the post should be made sticky at the very top of the forum.

If one wants a quick, fun, nimble street car, GTI is the answer for the past 40 years.

 

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

My Tacoma handles everything I ask from it when commuting, getting groceries, or carving highway exits at 0.7 Gs. Its just as fast as the M2s and Porsches I pass on the highway… well until we start getting into doing things that would get you arrested.

(Ok, welll the emergency braking could be better, but in its defense its got K02s on it)

if you can’t drive a slow car fast, a faster car won’t help you (and a GT mustang is not even a ‘slow’ car).

put your money into instruction and seat time. You can go buy that faster car, but the track rats in miatas will still run you down and gobble you up. You can own the fast car, but you still have to find someone who knows how drive it in order to extract that performance.

in other words - its the indian, not the arrow. All the Motorweeks and Car and Driver magazines and Top Gears a s YouTube stars make it sound like all you need to do is own that faster machine, but its far from that. Good drivers in slower cars will /wreck/inexperienced drivers in faster cars. I chased down a Porsche GT3 on Hoosier A7s once in my GT mustang (well until I boiled the brakes). Thats not supposed to happen, and thats not even unusual for HPDE track days

watching a guy in a GT350R get goaded by his girlfriend into trying to out lap a “slower” GT350 driver who actually had skills, and then nearly wreck his R into a concrete wall was kinda fun. He was so embarassed/scared he up and quit the track day right there. Don’t be the guy in the R who‘s chasing his ego and thinking its all about the car, or that it actually matters at all at an HPDE event if you’re faster than X car/driver or slower. It doesnt matter! Invest in your own growth as a driver. Be slow for a while. Drive a lesser car with body roll and narrow tires. You’ll learn a lot faster. People always want to buy parts. Buy skill instead, it lasts longer and its a lot more rewarding.

ok I’m going to go back to playing with the $$$$ carbon fiber wing I just bought, which I don’t need, but looks amazing. ;)

That's well and all, except I didn't see where he ever said he just wants to go faster (maybe I missed it in a later post). He specifically said he wants a more buttoned down and fun to drive car. There's a lot of cars with much better handling than the PP1/Bullitt w/ MagneRide. And there's no reason why someone can't want to learn to be a better track driver in a better handling car.

 

[NightmareMoon]

That's well and all, except I didn't see where he ever said he just wants to go faster (maybe I missed it in a later post). He specifically said he wants a more buttoned down and fun to drive car. There's a lot of cars with much better handling than the PP1/Bullitt w/ MagneRide. And there's no reason why someone can't want to learn to be a better track driver in a better handling car.

All true

 

[bnightstar]

That's well and all, except I didn't see where he ever said he just wants to go faster (maybe I missed it in a later post). He specifically said he wants a more buttoned down and fun to drive car. There's a lot of cars with much better handling than the PP1/Bullitt w/ MagneRide. And there's no reason why someone can't want to learn to be a better track driver in a better handling car.

Thing is Mustang is not a good car out of the gate it's a blank canvas as some of the Ford Performance engineers put it during one of the videos from New York Auto Show presenting the S650. Ford knows that this is why we are not getting a great car out of the factory.

But you can make an S550/S650 Mustang into whatever the hell you want it to be. You want that 6 sec 1/4 mile monster sure no biggie. You want that FormulaD championship car to slide around everywhere in America sure no biggie. You want a track car that is capable of passing DPI cars at Daytona sure no biggie. But in order to make your car any of this things you need to put $$$ and time.

There are tons and tons of performance shops for the Mustang all specialised in different things for the car. The possibilities are endless.
Sure if you just bought a Mustang for your first sports car (like I did) it could be overwhelming and very hard in the beginning because the Mustang is actually one of the hardest cars to drive and it requires a lot of experience to drive it fast and because the suspension is so bad out of the gate it's borderline dangerous for a new to the sports cars world guy. However if you work with the right people in the industry if you learn how to drive and constantly improve.

Fallow the amazing advice from people here on this forum to not grow the car past the point where you could drive it safe. You will have one hell of a journey in a very deep world that not a lot of cars on the market today can offer you. For the Mustang the slogan Build not Bought is the true essence of what a Mustang is.

Even a Mach 1, GT350, GT500 or Dark Horse could be made a lot faster with the help of the AfterMarket industry. Just look at all this GT500's that are going faster than Turbo S's and Tesla Plaid's on the drag strips.

So is it easier to just give up and buy a Supra or an M2 or a Porsche sure will you get a better car sure but will you get to actually learn what makes a fast car no.
This is what Mustang is all about.

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